Shady Slim Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 07/07/2018 at 5:11 AM, frenchie said: And I'd love to know what other positions they'd excel, if they wanted. same position any woke pundit thought lamar jackson should switch to nose tackle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 7:11 AM, frenchie said: That's news to me. Cam's a much better thrower than Vick, but I would never describe him as 'immensely talented' in that department. Both are sub 60% passers, and that's a nice way of saying it... Cam had 1 great season as a passer and a couple ok seasons. Vick had 1 solid passing season and a couple above average ones. Neither have ever been one of the most dominant players in the league; It looked like Cam was trending that way, but after a pair of turd seasons, I struggle to even label him average. And I'd love to know what other positions they'd excel, if they wanted. Do you think Cam wouldn't do very well at TE or DE? Do you think vick wouldn't make some great plays as a scat back/KR? They both had tremendous arm talent with rocket arms, I do not think any of my propositions are preposterous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 They might have immense talent as "throwers" but they have piss-poor talent for an NFL starter as passers. Arm strength is the least important attribute for an NFL QB. In fact, arm strength can also often be a detriment, as the guys with the strongest arms also usually lack the touch required on many types of passes. Arm strength should be evaluated as pass/fail. Is it strong enough for the NFL? If so, move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Cam Newton is a piss-poor talent as a passer? If that was the case, he wouldn't still be a starting QB, especially not for a team that has consistently made it to the playoffs under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 11 hours ago, Calvert28 said: I wish I could vote Vick again just because of Cam's pompous attitude. For real? You wish you could vote for a dog murderer because Cam Newton is a little arrogant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 7 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said: Arm strength is the least important attribute for an NFL QB. In fact, arm strength can also often be a detriment, as the guys with the strongest arms also usually lack the touch required on many types of passes. Arm strength should be evaluated as pass/fail. Is it strong enough for the NFL? If so, move on. If you want to dock QB's for having too strong of arms, go ahead and do that lol. I hate the argument that arm strength doesn't matter. How far can you throw it is maybe a little overrated, but it's certainly not a detriment. And arm strength is 1000% important for the underneath game. In a game where the DB's are so damn fast at sticking their foot in the ground and jumping routes, you need to have a fast release and unbelievable zip on the ball. Josh Allen, as flawed as he is, was able to sneak the football into windows that he and maybe 2-3 other QB's on the planet could. I can't tell you how many times this happened: Curl/hitch/stick route from the WR. The DB is right on the WR's hip. Allen releases a monster toss at 7000 mph and the DB can't close on the pass fast enough. I've seen Vick and Cam do the same thing. They have elite arms. I feel like they might be able to play other spots, but QB clearly was the correct position for these two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywlker32 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 43 minutes ago, iknowcool said: Cam Newton is a piss-poor talent as a passer? If that was the case, he wouldn't still be a starting QB, especially not for a team that has consistently made it to the playoffs under him. I would hardly call 4 out of 7 years consistent. Especially when you consider that one of those years was a 7-8-1 regular season finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Cam is probably the most inconsistent franchise QB in the league. That speaks volumes because I’m taking him over Vick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, skywlker32 said: I would hardly call 4 out of 7 years consistent. Especially when you consider that one of those years was a 7-8-1 regular season finish. 4 out of the last 5 years, including records of 12-4, 15-1, and 11-5 in the toughest division. Cam has the 4th most wins out of any QB in that period. So yeah, I would say we have been a consistent playoff and winning team under Cam relative to the rest of the NFL. About as consistent as any non Rodgers or Brady team will be. That wouldn’t happen if Cam was a “piss poor” passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Vick. Only if he played for Cleveland in the Dawg Pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: If you want to dock QB's for having too strong of arms, go ahead and do that lol. I hate the argument that arm strength doesn't matter. How far can you throw it is maybe a little overrated, but it's certainly not a detriment. And arm strength is 1000% important for the underneath game. In a game where the DB's are so damn fast at sticking their foot in the ground and jumping routes, you need to have a fast release and unbelievable zip on the ball. Josh Allen, as flawed as he is, was able to sneak the football into windows that he and maybe 2-3 other QB's on the planet could. I can't tell you how many times this happened: Curl/hitch/stick route from the WR. The DB is right on the WR's hip. Allen releases a monster toss at 7000 mph and the DB can't close on the pass fast enough. I've seen Vick and Cam do the same thing. They have elite arms. I feel like they might be able to play other spots, but QB clearly was the correct position for these two guys. Touch is more important than arm strength. It's not even close. And with today's game, passing has never been easier. I saw Chad Pennington live in 2004. I promise you, most high school QBs have comparable arm strength to him. He was just fine in the short passing game. He had one of the weakest arms of anybody who ever played pro football - a definite "fail" grade in the category - and he was still OK. How many elite QBs had elite arm strength? Favre. Roethlisberger's is pretty strong. Um...Elway, if you don't consider him overrated. Most of the greatest didn't have particularly strong arms. Peyton Manning, especially in his later years, was towards the bottom in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotsheatyan Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Newton can thank his defense for the fact he is still a starter with his original team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, patriotsheatyan said: Newton can thank his defense for the fact he is still a starter with his original team lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said: Touch is more important than arm strength. It's not even close. I wouldn't argue this. But you were acting like arm strength means nothing so long as you don't have a noodle. That is completely false. 4 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said: And with today's game, passing has never been easier. Correct. 4 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said: I saw Chad Pennington live in 2004. I promise you, most high school QBs have comparable arm strength to him. He was just fine in the short passing game. He had one of the weakest arms of anybody who ever played pro football - a definite "fail" grade in the category - and he was still OK. True. I'm not saying you can't be good with arm strength, but it's a huge tool to have at your disposal. Pennington was one of the extremely rare exceptions of a successful QB with a below average arm. 4 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said: How many elite QBs had elite arm strength? Favre. Roethlisberger's is pretty strong. Um...Elway, if you don't consider him overrated. 85-90% of the elite QB's had/have great arms. 4 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said: Most of the greatest didn't have particularly strong arms. Peyton Manning, especially in his later years, was towards the bottom in that category. False. And Peyton Manning had a gun until he got to the Broncos. Tom Brady and Joe Montana didn't have elite arms, I'll grant you that. But that doesn't mean having a strong arm is not a key trait to look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 You want a guy with a strong arm but you also want a guy who has it between the ears. I wonder if either of these QBs in this thread have it. With the physical talent they both possess they should have had a lot more success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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