Do you consider A.J. Green a top-5 wide receiver?

[MrOaktown_56]

36 minutes ago, GamedayGuru said:

Does he have his length? No, does he have the body control? Yes, Thomas can contort his body to do insane things that I have seen. But i'm not talking about length, I didn't say he was built like Green, I said he can do everything Green can do. Antonio Brown doesn't have the length of Green, does that mean Green is better?

Green is flat out a better receiver than Thomas right now. If you can't see that, I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent. Ask the Saints, if they could have AJ Green or Michael Thomas, age aside, on purely performance. That's not even a question.

Green is a better vertical threat, has better control, is longer, and has been shredding double teams throughout his career. Thomas isn't that guy. Sorry. How often has thomas gotten behind defenses for 60-70 yard touchdowns? Green has done it throughout his career.

And I LOVED thomas coming out of college. Called him the best receiver in that draft class.

Green is arguably one of the best receivers of all time and is a future HOF. Thomas isn't even remotely in the discussion.

[Broncofan]

44 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Are you kidding me? He doesn't have AJ's length and body control. He's not a freak like Green is, and Green has produced at the top of the league with safety help over the top throughout his career with a quarterback at least two tiers above Dalton. 

Also, you can't seriously tell me with a straight face that Hopkins and OBJ are better than Julio. That's a joke.

 

This argument has to do with resume and right now, not 3-4 years from now. Allen hasn't been on the field enough to be put over Green. That's insanely insulting to put Allen over Green. And in terms of talent, it's still not true. AJ is hard to cover as well, and hasn't exactly had stellar qb play throughout his career.

I don't think people are taking into account system and circumstances in this discussion nearly enough. Green's game will age well, and until he really shows signs of slowing down, he's at/near the top of the league for me.

We only differ on this - what happens now and forward.  The resume to me only tells me if it’s a fluke.  In all the guys we are discussing we know it’s not a fluke.  

I have 4 guys in the same tier moving forward as 4-7.   It’s no biggie to me who is 4 and who is 7.  The difference is too small to get worked up about.  

[GamedayGuru]

27 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Green is flat out a better receiver than Thomas right now. If you can't see that, I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent. Ask the Saints, if they could have AJ Green or Michael Thomas, age aside, on purely performance. That's not even a question.

Green is a better vertical threat, has better control, is longer, and has been shredding double teams throughout his career. Thomas isn't that guy. Sorry. How often has thomas gotten behind defenses for 60-70 yard touchdowns? Green has done it throughout his career.

And I LOVED thomas coming out of college. Called him the best receiver in that draft class.

Green is arguably one of the best receivers of all time and is a future HOF. Thomas isn't even remotely in the discussion.

if u want to say green is better than thomas than sure, but saying thomas isn't a deep threat is ludacris, his rookie year i also believe he led the entire league in deep ball catch %. If u think green is better cool, but Thomas is absolutely a deep threat, he's a true #1 WR, he's elite, and can absolutely beat people over the top, i've seen him do it repeatedly. 

And thomas constantly gets and beat double teams, because last year the only WR weapon next to him was Ginn, our 3rd and 4th string WR's were terrible, snead and coleman, and so were our tight ends, fleener and hill. 

not to mention thomas had the elast amount of drops in the league among eligble WR's with only 2 drops.

[GamedayGuru]

22 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Green is flat out a better receiver than Thomas right now. If you can't see that, I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent. Ask the Saints, if they could have AJ Green or Michael Thomas, age aside, on purely performance. That's not even a question.

Green is a better vertical threat, has better control, is longer, and has been shredding double teams throughout his career. Thomas isn't that guy. Sorry. How often has thomas gotten behind defenses for 60-70 yard touchdowns? Green has done it throughout his career.

And I LOVED thomas coming out of college. Called him the best receiver in that draft class.

Green is arguably one of the best receivers of all time and is a future HOF. Thomas isn't even remotely in the discussion.

 

[GamedayGuru]

39 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Green is flat out a better receiver than Thomas right now. If you can't see that, I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent. Ask the Saints, if they could have AJ Green or Michael Thomas, age aside, on purely performance. That's not even a question.

Green is a better vertical threat, has better control, is longer, and has been shredding double teams throughout his career. Thomas isn't that guy. Sorry. How often has thomas gotten behind defenses for 60-70 yard touchdowns? Green has done it throughout his career.

And I LOVED thomas coming out of college. Called him the best receiver in that draft class.

Green is arguably one of the best receivers of all time and is a future HOF. Thomas isn't even remotely in the discussion.

please watch this highlight at 1:22 3:22 4:33 7:45 8:00 and tell me he cant contort his body like aj green and fitz. or watch other parts where he out runs Xavier Rhodes or Desmond Trufant with speed. 

[ET80]

Voted no on accident (new phone, still getting used to a screen that works) but Green is pretty much locked at 5 for me.

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, GamedayGuru said:

if u want to say green is better than thomas than sure, but saying thomas isn't a deep threat is ludacris, his rookie year i also believe he led the entire league in deep ball catch %. If u think green is better cool, but Thomas is absolutely a deep threat, he's a true #1 WR, he's elite, and can absolutely beat people over the top, i've seen him do it repeatedly. 

And thomas constantly gets and beat double teams, because last year the only WR weapon next to him was Ginn, our 3rd and 4th string WR's were terrible, snead and coleman, and so were our tight ends, fleener and hill. 

not to mention thomas had the elast amount of drops in the league among eligble WR's with only 2 drops.

14

He's not as good of a deep threat as Green. This is all comparative. Like I said, Green has tons of touchdowns of 60-70 yards or more.

 

Michael Thomas is NOT ELITE. I don't know what you think elite means. Calling Thomas elite was the last straw. This conversation is over.

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

We only differ on this - what happens now and forward.  The resume to me only tells me if it’s a fluke.  In all the guys we are discussing we know it’s not a fluke.  

I have 4 guys in the same tier moving forward as 4-7.   It’s no biggie to me who is 4 and who is 7.  The difference is too small to get worked up about.  

The fact that you think there's a gap between Julio and OBJ/Hopkins tells me all I need to know. Its the other way around.

[BayRaider]

AJ Green is the third best receiver in this league IMO. He has had Dalton at QB (who is no slouch but no where close to elite) and has never had a great run game or great WR counterparts. Sanu.. c'mon. He had an ok season cause of Green. Personally I feel he is more well rounded than Julio. Although I'm not saying he's better than him.

[TheVillain112]

This reminds me of Skins fans talking about Alfred Morris...

[SmittyBacall]

15 hours ago, GamedayGuru said:

Does he have his length? No, does he have the body control? Yes, Thomas can contort his body to do insane things that I have seen. But i'm not talking about length, I didn't say he was built like Green, I said he can do everything Green can do. Antonio Brown doesn't have the length of Green, does that mean Green is better?

I'm going to stop you right there: Thomas is in no way shape or form the deep threat Green is, so that "he can do anything Green can" argument is absolutely bogus.

AJ Green is Megatron-lite. Long, fast, deceptively strong and quick for his size.

Michael Thomas is Dez Bryant. Physical as hell, strong hands, and wins with size in tight spaces. 

Thomas is a great receiver who has the luxury of playing with a future HOF and top 3 QB in the NFL and his numbers reflect that. You swap these WRs offensive situations and I guarantee this conversation never happens. Green's career has been dampened by his market and a physically capped pass at QB. He's a future HOF at this rate. 

This is why receivers should be ranked in tiers and not numerically. There's too many variables that determine a players worth, rank and "success". Unfortunately abiding by box scores is the easiest way for people to come to these conclusions while neglecting a players natural ability and team circumstances. Ask yourself, is Thomas' potential maximized in the offense he's in? I'd say yes. Is Green? I'd say hell no. And you can argue Thomas is young and is only going to get better, which is probably true. But he's still going to be the receiver I compared with to Bryant, because he'll never be the downfield threat Green is. The only way he's challenging the deep portion of the field is with double moves. 

From Belichek himself https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/new-england-patriots/bill-belichick-says-cincinnati-bengals-aj-green-is-elite-as-new-england-patriots-prepare:

Quote

 

But Green, in the estimation of Bill Belichick, is “an elite player.”

What sets him apart at 6-foot-4, 205 pounds from the others?

“Quickness,” Belichick answered immediately. “He’s very quick. He has good stop-and-start quickness, very good intermediate route runner. A number of the players that you talked about [I mentioned Sammy Watkins and Demaryius Thomas and would have also included Brandon Marshall, etc. had I gone on] are really just two-level players: short catch-and-run and deep speed routes, build speed routes. Green’s very good at intermediate routes. Comebacks, in-cuts, curls. Routes like that.

“He has great quickness at the top of his routes and excellent hands so he’s able to extend and create separation with his length and his catching skills,” Belichick explained. “He makes some incredible one-handed catches or catches where the defender’s just draped all over him and is able to get his hands a few inches out further than the defenders and make the play. His catch radius is exceptional. But the thing that to me really puts him at the top of the league in receivers is his ability to affect all three levels particularly those intermediate areas.”

Recently, the NFL Network devoted one of its A Football Life episodes to former Bengal (and Patriot) Chad Johnson. The footspeed of Johnson was arresting. 

Is Green -- whose average game since entering the league in 2011 is 5.56 receptions and 82.5 yards. -- at all similar to Johnson?

“Chad had very good quickness and Green is probably a little faster long speed,” said Belichick, seeming to indicate there were similarities but that they didn’t run that deep. “Not that Chad was slow but Green is very fast. He’s an elite player. There’s no real weak points in his game; short, intermediate, catch-and-run, deep, ball skills, quickness, ability to really defeat any type of coverage, size, speed, quickness. He’s a hard guy to handle.”

 

[SmittyBacall]

13 hours ago, GamedayGuru said:

please watch this highlight at 1:22 3:22 4:33 7:45 8:00 and tell me he cant contort his body like aj green and fitz. or watch other parts where he out runs Xavier Rhodes or Desmond Trufant with speed. 

Oh wow Thomas has 4 long seconds to run a cross the field, in which Brees has a squeaky clean pocket and lays him a perfect ball. What gifts he possesses! And Rhodes isn't exactly known for his speed. And where did he run past Trufant? On that corner route vs. zone coverage where he head faked inside to get Trufant to bite? That isn't speed.

[Crickett]

13 hours ago, BayRaider said:

AJ Green is the third best receiver in this league IMO. He has had Dalton at QB (who is no slouch but no where close to elite) and has never had a great run game or great WR counterparts. Sanu.. c'mon. He had an ok season cause of Green. Personally I feel he is more well rounded than Julio. Although I'm not saying he's better than him.

So, did you miss the part where Sanu once he left the Bengals for the Falcons became an integral part of one of the most high powered offenses in the NFL?  Or the existence of Marvin Jones?   Or Tyler Eifert?  I keep seeing this fiction in this thread that A.J. Green had a terrible offense to work with for his entire career.  Have you all forgotten that that the Bengals prior to 2016 had one of the best WR trios in the NFL?  Or that Giovanni Bernard and Jeremy Hill actually used to be good?  The Bengals used to have.... well at least pretty good offensive tackles. 

 

No, A.J. Green has never had "great" WR counterparts.  Neither has Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham Jr.  There are no teams currently in the NFL with more than one top 8 WR.  Why has that stopped A.J. Green from being more productive then any of them?   And yes, A.J. Green is Megatron light.  But he's Megatron very light.  He may be the same kind of receiver, but Green has never had the purely dominant seasons Calvin Johnson had in his heyday.  And oh by the way, before signing Golden Tate, Calvin Johnson really didn't have an NFL caliber (as opposed to "great") wide receiver opposite him. 

 

As to the matter of is A.J. Green is a top five wide receiver?  I want to say yes because I do think he deserves it, but honestly I probably have him at #6 (although I have Tyreek Hill rated higher than most), potentially dropping to #7 if Keenan Allen can put more than one healthy season together in a row.  

 

If I did want to make a case for Green to be rated higher than Michael Thomas, it would be that I do think Andy Dalton is a slouch.   If Green had a better quarterback, he probably would be much more productive and better able to demonstrate his top five talent.  But instead he has a quarterback who can miss him (despite being 6'4 and his team's top target) going the entire way across the middle of the field past the first down marker entirely uncovered by anyone so the QB can throw it to someone else who is blanketed.  Or as I like to call it, pulling a Paxton Lynch. 

[Danger]

Tyreek Hill has done nothing to this point in his career to list him as a top 10 WR let alone top 5.

[Crickett]

6 minutes ago, Danger said:

Tyreek Hill has done nothing to this point in his career to list him as a top 10 WR let alone top 5.

You mean aside from establishing himself as one of if not the most dangerous speed demons in the NFL able to take the top off of defenses or turn routine short passes into big gains  because he's just so much faster and elusive than everyone else, right?  He's a vertical threat who managed 1100+ yards in his second season with one of the most checkdown happy quarterbacks of the last twenty years throwing him the ball. 

 

Aside from that, he's done nothing.