Preseason Week 2 - GDT vs. Pittsburgh

[packfanfb]

39 minutes ago, St Vince said:

Blame the new stupid rule not Brice. These guys have to tackle without putting their head down. It's gonna suck being a safety in todays NFL.

The new rule sucks indeed. Still, not an excuse. If a safety can't tackle, he can't play. Just one play by Brice, not over-reacting, but something to watch moving forward. Same for the safety group as a whole. A lot of questions there. 

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Players who made statement last night (disclaimer, I am completely unqualified to evaluate player performance):

POSITIVE STATEMENTS:

Tonyan (Haven't seen a rookie TE fight for the ball like Tonyan since Chmura's rookie year. Note to Kendricks: the objects in your mirror maybe closer than they appear.)

Kumerow (If one of the three starters go down, he's the guy we should want "up next." The three rookies all looked like they will need a year for the game to slow down for them.)

Gilbert (The light bulb has come on! Kahlil who?)

Jackson (Great pick 6. Good coverage all night, and for a bonus he looked comfortable returning punts. Davis see note to Kendricks.)

Waters: For a converted WR, he looked very good. I see nothing but upside here.

NEGATIVE STATEMENTS:

D. Brown: Does not look like an NFL cornerback. Canada bound?

Fackrell: Seemed to be out of position and pushed around all night.

Bouagnon: meh

Judd: See Bouagnon

Bell: Never seemed to block anybody, but I'm no expert.

The inside linebacker group behind the starters: Gute should be scanning the waiver wire.

JK Scott: Was out kicked last night by the Pitt punter. Hopefully he bounces back.

Biegel: Looked like Fackrel 2.0

Feel free to add/subtract/criticize. 

 

 

[Cheech]

Tonyan really surprised me last night.  I want to see him a bit more,  but he absolutely could push his way on to the roster. 

House had some nice plays AT CB, too.  I might have been premature with his departure.

 

Now is the time to experiment with Fackrell and Rollins.  Fackrell doesn't belong as an edge rusher.  He can't set the edge in the running game and he's all or nothing (mostly nothing) in the pass rush department.  Can he play some at ILB?  At the very least he needs to play off the ball.  The dude is getting handled by TE's.

Rollins had his first snaps at FS last night.  I'd like to see what he can do there over the next 2 games, because he's no longer in the CB conversation.  

[craig]

How did Spriggs look?  

[Leader]

6 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Tonyan really surprised me last night.  I want to see him a bit more,  but he absolutely could push his way on to the roster.

Acknowledging it's up in the air at this time, you thinking he could supplant Kendricks (?) or force we roster 4 TEs?
I've not seen the game yet - so I'll check his performance out - but 4 would seem a bit much at this point on the roster.
Say he maintains last nights performance level - can we safely PS him (?) or would we need to put him on the roster?

[craig]

Didn't see it either, but Tonyan seems pure PS to me.  

Graham and Lewis (and Kendricks) are older guys.  I think it would be very desirable to have a receiving-oriented prospect in the pipeline.  Think Graham's receiving capacity is important for a team whose chances hinge on a premium passing game.  Tonyan is never going to become Lewis-esque as a blocker.  But as Graham-model receiving TE, maybe?  Tonyan obviously isn't as tall as Graham, nor as good; he's certainly faster at this point in their careers? 

Always the optimist, I'm hoping for a D+D path where he does PS this year, makes roster next year, and develops well so that he's poised to step into the Graham role when necessary?  

[Leader]

3 minutes ago, craig said:

Didn't see it either, but Tonyan seems pure PS to me.  

Graham and Lewis (and Kendricks) are older guys.  I think it would be very desirable to have a receiving-oriented prospect in the pipeline.  Think Graham's receiving capacity is important for a team whose chances hinge on a premium passing game.  Tonyan is never going to become Lewis-esque as a blocker.  But as Graham-model receiving TE, maybe?  Tonyan obviously isn't as tall as Graham, nor as good; he's certainly faster at this point in their careers? 

Always the optimist, I'm hoping for a D+D path where he does PS this year, makes roster next year, and develops well so that he's poised to step into the Graham role when necessary?  

Just to add a stat line to this chatter.....

Tonyan is listed at 6'5" / 237# - which is 3rd tallest TE (after Graham and Lewis) and also the lightest.

[Packerraymond]

Tonyan caught a TD guys, let's not get ahead of ourselves and say he's better than Kendricks. 

He's battling with Byrd as the TE they are going to want to keep as the PS guy. I like some of the tools I've seen as a receiver. I'm going to imagine he's a trainwreck blocking though.

[MrBobGray]

15 minutes ago, Leader said:

Acknowledging it's up in the air at this time, you thinking he could supplant Kendricks (?) or force we roster 4 TEs?
I've not seen the game yet - so I'll check his performance out - but 4 would seem a bit much at this point on the roster.
Say he maintains last nights performance level - can we safely PS him (?) or would we need to put him on the roster?

I think if he takes anyone's roster position, it'll be Rip.  The Packers were not very effective in two back sets last year, they like to play TEs in the backfield anyway, and although I love Rip he just doesn't offer much anymore.  He's not even showing up on ST (not sure if he's even on the starting units).  Tonyan has talent; he's a former college WR who was a solid athlete.  At his pro-day he put up: 

6'4", 236 lbs, 4.58 40, 16 bench, 35 vert, 10'05" broad, 7.12 3-cone, 4.34 short shuttle.  

Nothing eye-popping, but there's NFL level athletcisim there for sure. And he showed the ability to track the ball and make the contested catch.  He moves well for a big guy.

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

At his pro-day he put up: 6'4", 236 lbs, 4.58 40, 16 bench, 35 vert, 10'05" broad, 7.12 3-cone, 4.34 short shuttle. Nothing eye-popping, but there's NFL level athletcisim there for sure.

ESPN has him listed at 6'5" - for what thats worth.

[MrBobGray]

Just now, Leader said:

ESPN has him listed at 6'5" - for what thats worth.

Yeah, they commonly round up.  He measured in at 6'4 and 5/8".  I generally round down, but that's right at the spot where you can go either way with it.

[Cheesehawk]

4 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I think if he takes anyone's roster position, it'll be Rip.  The Packers were not very effective in two back sets last year, they like to play TEs in the backfield anyway, and although I love Rip he just doesn't offer much anymore.  He's not even showing up on ST (not sure if he's even on the starting units).  Tonyan has talent; he's a former college WR who was a solid athlete.  At his pro-day he put up: 

6'4", 236 lbs, 4.58 40, 16 bench, 35 vert, 10'05" broad, 7.12 3-cone, 4.34 short shuttle.  

Nothing eye-popping, but there's NFL level athletcisim there for sure. And he showed the ability to track the ball and make the contested catch.  He moves well for a big guy.

Rip is always around the ball on kick offs. Don't see how he doesnt make the roster. Our pass protection at RB isn't all that great either. 

[Leader]

Just now, MrBobGray said:

Yeah, they commonly round up.  He measured in at 6'4 and 5/8".  I generally round down, but that's right at the spot where you can go either way with it.

Go taller. It strikes fear into the DBs

[TheOnlyThing]

Initial takes from last night's game:

Because the defense has so many new and moving parts it will struggle early and (hopefully) get better as the season progresses.

The red zone offense will be much better due to Graham's presence.

The 3rd down back role remains a conundrum and I would not be surprised to see Rip filling it purely for blocking purposes. Montgomery's blocking remains underwhelming.

Josh Jackson has excellent FOOTBALL instincts. He might contribute at CB sooner rather than later.

I don’t think this year’s GM will cut Gilbert in order to give 3^rd round pick Fackrell more opportunities to “develop.” 

Speaking of Kyler, I never thought Biegel would be compared to him. Vince played with such tenacity at UW, but now plays passively. Worried his game does not translate to the NFL. I'd like to see Biegel get some early reps the next couple of weeks to try and snap him out of it or conversely offer further evidence that he is not the guy to fill the fourth OLB role.

Kizer has been playing with the backups (or backups to the backups) and has performed pretty well. He is obviously next year's backup. Hate to allot a 2018 roster spot to a guy who will not be here next season and has already demonstrated his worth, but if Hundley is the better option to come in for a game or two to salvage the season it seems like the Pack will have to bite the bullet and hang on to him.

[craig]

10 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Tonyan .... battling with Byrd as the TE they are going to want to keep as the PS guy. ... I'm going to imagine he's a trainwreck blocking though.

We've got kind of a history of TE's who have been blocking liabilities, Graham almost certainly to be another, Finley was never good, and Richard Rodgers was flat bad.  So I assume Tonyan and Byrd will be bad likewise.  

That said, I seem to recall a media note this week suggesting that Tonyan has looked surprisingly tenacious/competitive in blocking drills?  Not sure I'm remembering it right, and it may be relative to expectations.  (When they see a guy who looks more like a WR, maybe anything north of horrifically bad qualifies as "surprising"?) 

But maybe it's also a reminder that while size/strength is essential to being a powerful blocker, there's more to it than that.  (Otherwise Richard Rodgers would have been better).  Maybe Tonyan is lacking mass but otherwise has pretty good blocking aptitude?  

Given another year of body-work, by next camp he might not be much short of 250 Kendricks.  

Trivia, Tonyan 6'5" 236 = Jermichael Finley pre-draft.  (Although Finley was years younger)