Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[PARROTHEAD]

3 main baddies in 3 episodes. Coffee cup, water bottle, Yelling "Fire" to shoot scorpions when gunpowder hasnt been invented. Gendrys last name, "I cant be lord of anything", Calvary charging into night. And on and on and on with the list.

There was no foreshadowing or anything of the sorts. You had 2 pricks who couldnt keep facts strait, spend 2 mins looking up some history of the RW or own show that wanted to be done with it asap. So didnt give 2 licks about anything but a couple shock moments to keep casuals amused while they escape to Disney.

[MacReady]

Just now, PARROTHEAD said:

Ill post it again.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/may/19/game-thrones-bad-writing-season-eight-nick-cohen
 

 

Yeah.  I know it was bad writing.  I have no issue with those complaints.  The issue I have is with people saying it didn't make sense for Dany to snap.  It made sense literally throughout the entire effing series. 

[BayRaider]

2 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

97% of things people are complaining about make sense if you just take the effing second to accept that things happened off-screen. 

Derp a derp, they got from Winterfell to King's Landing in a day. 
-No they didn't.  The show just decided not to spend an entire episode showing a travel montage. 

Derp a derp, Dany went insane just like that.
-No she didn't.  The show had time restraints and could not show her gradual descent into madness.  They showed exactly how much they could with a 6 episode season.  Angered over her losses in the battle with the NK.  Angered and paranoid over Jon's heritage.  Angered to the brink over her second dragon dying.  Pushed over the edge by Missandei dying. 

They didn't have a got damn season to focus on her gradual descent into madness, but for people who can actually follow a plot, it has been there since the very first season when she decided to BURN HERSELF WITH HER DEAD HUSBAND OUT OF GRIEF. 

I swear some people need their hands held throughout any kind of narrative fiction because they can't understand context or how narrative fiction works. 

Literally the only complaint that's warranted over the final season is how little time they put into it as far as literal screentime.  The same is true for both the last two seasons. 

The show was fantastic, groundbreaking and iconic from season one to the end of season five. 

It had some bad points in season six, but flourished with the final two episodes. 

Then came season seven and season eight, where the creators purposefully neglected and discarded the idea of more episodes because... Why?  Who knows.  There were 7 episodes in 7, 6 episodes in 8.  If you bring those episode totals up to the season average of 10, that's 7 more episodes where these things that are being complained about are solved. 

It DOES make sense that Dany went insane, it doesn't make sense how quickly it happened, but if you can't handle that things happen off-screen, you probably shouldn't be watching narrative fiction anyway.

Accept what happens is off screen?

This is possibly the worst justification and overall worst thing I have read since the Finale, yikes. If this is what helps you make it more believable, then props to you. 

What is cannon is what’s on screen. Saying assume what happens is off screen can basically be an excuse for every badly written TV Show and Movie in the world. What a crock of bologna. That is seriously the best you could come up with?

It is the writers job to show everything on screen. Nothing should be assumed off screen and nothing should be assumed from the books. What you see is what happens.  

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, NYRaider said:

The Ayra thing bugs me because when she's in the library and a drop of blood hits the floor they're all aware that she's there and start to look for her. So if a drop of blood is all it takes for the mindless wights to know her location, the best generals with actual magic powers, didn't hear here coming? Plus the angle she comes from means that she had to have jumped out of a tree. None of the White Walkers or the Night King heard her hopping from tree to tree before she killed him? Umm, okay. 

The justification here is that she is more silent than a drop of blood when she's moving. The way they shot that entire scene was really poor, but IMO it's meant to be interpreted as she ran by the White Walkers and then leaped into air "Air Jordan" style and tried to kill him. Idk, that part is very confusing but it was basically done for the visuals I would guess.

Just now, NYRaider said:

Euron catching her by surprise also bugs the hell out of me, not to mention for his weapons to have that type of force would mean that they're more powerful than the engines that launch rockets into space... He was able to hit the dragon with pinpoint accuracy from a mile away and take it down? Um, yeah, okay... 

Again, I'm not even upset that Euron's fleet had the Scorpions or that his fleet hit Rhaegal and killed him. Dany was acting out of impulse and that was the consequence. It was the how that made that scene complete garbage for me. Not to mention that his fleet his every single shot onto Rhaegal, and then from that point forward missed every single shot onto Drogon in that episode and in Episode 6.

Just now, NYRaider said:

And the writers themselves crapped on Dany's arc when they said in the post-episode featurette that she didn't plan to burn down KL but did it on a whim. I could understand burning down a couple of things out of frustration but to burn down the city street by street? Come on, her arc never lead to this. 

Her arc didn't lead to this, I agree. If anything, her arc lead to her going right up to the Red Keep and burning Cersei alive right there, but she didn't. In fact, she made it a point to burn the citizens INSTEAD of Cersei! At that point of the story, Dany doesn't even know if the person responsible for all of this is dead or not lol

[skywlker32]

6 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

RE: Your thoughts on the Wights - I spent a considerable amount of time saying exactly what you said there - that Arya sneaking past the Wights explains how sneaky she is. However, I never remember the NK giving a command for them to stand down. I simply attributed it to Arya being stealthy enough to sneak past them and make her attack before they could react. Either way, another example of how the "HOW" is a major leap in belief vs. the outcome. However, I think we both agree the outcome of who killed the NK is very debated and I would agree most fans were disappointed it was Arya rather than Jon.

RE: Rhaegal's death - it doesn't have to do with character arc. It's just an example of the outcome being fine but the HOW being bad writing/screenplay.

Now, regarding the quoted text. I know you're not arguing that, but several people here are arguing that this season makes sense, it wasn't rushed, things were properly foreshadowed or explained, etc. etc.. 

Now, regarding your "to say the things did were out of character arc is 100% wrong" statement, again I disagree. Dany killing women and children is out of her character arc. Grey Worm not killing prisoners when he was just executing prisoners a scene before is out of character arc. Dothraki becoming peaceful citizens is out of character arc. Yara and Dorne accepting being ruled when Sansa demands to be independent is out of character arc. The list goes on and on there.

To your final question - I'm here because I can. I'm discussing the show because I can. Why are you here? If you thought it was great, why let anyone spoil that for you?

It is only out of character until she does just that. What is the "logical" progression to killing women and children? I'll give you a hint. There isn't one. I would actually be concerned if anyone on this board could give justification for burning women and children.

And the difference between the women and children of kingslanding compared to everywhere else is that the people of kingslanding stood by while her family was destroyed. She doesn't know that there were a bunch of rebellious acts against Joffrey for example, she just knows that they came to Cersei for support during the attack. They took Cersei's side over her side in her mind. It's a warped perception of the people of kingslanding to go with her growing paranoia.

[MacReady]

Just now, BayRaider said:

What is cannon is what’s on screen.

I cannot possibly watch a series where the only character who ever had to poop was Tywin Lannister and take it seriously. 

[MacReady]

Just now, BayRaider said:

It is the writers job to show everything on screen.

I cannot possibly take seriously a series where people get on horseback and then POOF, they're in King's Landing.

Do you realize how absolutely bat**** insane this sentiment is? 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

6 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Accept what happens is off screen?

This is possibly the worst justification and overall worst thing I have read since the Finale, yikes. If this is what helps you make it more believable, then props to you. 

What is cannon is what’s on screen. Saying assume what happens is off screen can basically be an excuse for every badly written TV Show and Movie in the world. What a crock of bologna. That is seriously the best you could come up with?

It is the writers job to show everything on screen. Nothing should be assumed off screen and nothing should be assumed from the books. What you see is what happens.  

I disagree with your last sentence, btw.

If something happens off-screen, it's the writers' job to give an indication of that on-screen (and perhaps this is what you actually meant to say?). A good example of this is when Jaime is captured by Renly's forces off-screen. The battle isn't shown, but it's explained that they won and Jaime is captured. It's also not shown on screen that Stannis died, but it's explained several times on screen by Brienne that she killed him. Another example is when Bobby B arrives in Winterfell. Cersei says they've been riding "for a month", indicating they've been traveling for some time since Jon Arryn's death.

You're 100% right though that things that happen off-screen that aren't explained in some way or HINTED TO in some way to the viewers can never be expected to be assumed true. For example, viewers can't reasonably be lead to believe Jon Snow stopped to take a crap on his way from Grey Worm to Dany in the final episode as a justification for why Grey Worm beat him to that spot.

Edited May 23, 2019 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[PARROTHEAD]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah.  I know it was bad writing.  I have no issue with those complaints.  The issue I have is with people saying it didn't make sense for Dany to snap.  It made sense literally throughout the entire effing series. 

Maybe so. But I agree with the article. If you failed to reach a large enough portion of the audience with that. Then her build that way failed.

5-10% I could go along with you.

But if you had a restaurant. And I personally liked you food. But 40-60% didnt and had a bad experience. Something is seriously wrong somewhere.

[Leader]

1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Yelling "Fire" to shoot scorpions when gunpowder hasnt been invented.....

Would it have made it more believable to you is they'd yelled:

"SHOOT!" - I mean they didnt have guns or rifles - so would "Shoot" really apply? At what point could people actually start using "Shoot?"
or "RELEASE!" - I mean, they werent true archers - but this could be close.
or "GO!" - I mean, this would be a kind of universal command no? Just "Go! Get it done!"
or "JUST DO IT....KILL THAT DAMN THING!" - this would probably work best as its a command that both expresses the character arc and their emotions.

Which would fit perfectly? It's these small details that really matter 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

5 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

It is only out of character until she does just that. What is the "logical" progression to killing women and children? I'll give you a hint. There isn't one. I would actually be concerned if anyone on this board could give justification for burning women and children.

The logical progression for burning women and children would start with showing a general disregard for human life. Dany is the exact opposite throughout the entire show.

5 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

And the difference between the women and children of kingslanding compared to everywhere else is that the people of kingslanding stood by while her family was destroyed. She doesn't know that there were a bunch of rebellious acts against Joffrey for example, she just knows that they came to Cersei for support during the attack. They took Cersei's side over her side in her mind. It's a warped perception of the people of kingslanding to go with her growing paranoia.

IIRC, doesn't Tyrion or Varys say that the people are turning against Cersei? I seem to recall a couple of instances where her advisers tell her that the people are essentially being held against their will by Cersei, or something along those lines. Granted, it still doesn't explain why Dany targets them when she hears the bells instead of targeting Cersei. Now, if the showrunners wanted to portray the citizens as "choosing" Cersei over Dany, why not have Dany kill Cersei, then land her dragon, the people start hissing at her or throwing **** at her or something, and then she burns the city to the ground?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, Leader said:

Would it have made it more believable to you is they'd yelled:

"SHOOT!" - I mean they didnt have guns or rifles - so would "Shoot" really apply? At what point could people actually start using "Shoot?"
or "RELEASE!" - I mean, they werent true archers - but this could be close.
or "GO!" - I mean, this would be a kind of universal command no? Just "Go! Get it done!"
or "JUST DO IT....KILL THAT DAMN THING!" - this would probably work best as its a command that both expresses the character arc and their emotions.

Which would fit perfectly? It's these small details that really matter 

They yell "Loose" throughout the entire show up to that point.

[BayRaider]

7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I cannot possibly take seriously a series where people get on horseback and then POOF, they're in King's Landing.

Do you realize how absolutely bat**** insane this sentiment is? 

Are you kidding me.....? So every show should show someone pooping. 

You are really REALLY grasping at straws to try to prove your point lmfao. 

[PARROTHEAD]

Just now, Leader said:

Would it have made it more believable to you is they'd yelled:

"SHOOT!" - I mean they didnt have guns or rifles - so would "Shoot" really apply? At what point could people actually start using "Shoot?"
or "RELEASE!" - I mean, they werent true archers - but this could be close.
or "GO!" - I mean, this would be a kind of universal command no? Just "Go! Get it done!"
or "JUST DO IT....KILL THAT DAMN THING!" - this would probably work best as its a command that both expresses the character arc and their emotions.

Which would fit perfectly? It's these small details that really matter 

Its "Loose".

But youre not getting it through your head. Theres a MOUNTAIN of mistakes like that made. And you pick 1 and say its nitpick. But its a MOUNTAIN of simple mistakes compiled up to show they didnt care in the slightest about getting things right.

[BayRaider]

8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I disagree with your last sentence, btw.

If something happens off-screen, it's the writers' job to give an indication of that on-screen (and perhaps this is what you actually meant to say?). A good example of this is when Jaime is captured by Renly's forces off-screen. The battle isn't shown, but it's explained that they won and Jaime is captured. It's also not shown on screen that Stannis died, but it's explained several times on screen by Brienne that she killed him. Another example is when Bobby B arrives in Winterfell. Cersei says they've been riding "for a month", indicating they've been traveling for some time since Jon Arryn's death.

You're 100% right though that things that happen off-screen that aren't explained in some way or HINTED TO in some way to the viewers can never be expected to be assumed true. For example, viewers can't reasonably be lead to believe Jon Snow stopped to take a crap on his way from Grey Worm to Dany in the final episode as a justification for why Grey Worm beat him to that spot.

If it is mentioned it happened off screen that is totally fine.