Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[Leader]

4 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Only in Dany’s case you have a litany of her burning, killing, and crucifying large numbers of people on top of that to show that she actually is capable of such brutality.

Correct.

[BayRaider]

Just now, lancerman said:

In season 6, Tyrion literally had to plead with her not to burn cities. Dany at a very young age in the show threatened to burn down cities. 

Lets you spend nearly a decade of your life saying “I really want to rob a bank” and you say it about ever bank you pass, but your friends talk you out of it. Then someday you fight with your friends and they aren’t there to talk you out of it. Then you do it. Nobody can plausibly claim it’s not in your character.

Only in Dany’s case you have a litany of her burning, killing, and crucifying large numbers of people on top of that to show that she actually is capable of such brutality.

Thank you for the made up statistics, but they don’t really matter here. I can link you threads of people discussing Dany becoming a mad queen that date back to the first season of the show and earlier, there are plenty of instances throughout the lifecycle of the show where people said this is where her actions were leading. You just made up a stat to justify yourself. 

No, there are way more people who do not agree with the finale and overall season than agree with it. Not sure if you have friends in real life, go on reddit, youtube, etc. Where are any of these happy comments? At least 60% are dissatisfied, especially with the Danny situation. 

Also I actually agree with your last bit, yea Danny was always meant to be Mad Queen. We always knew that was the end result since Episode 1 of the whole series. However, it’s how we got there. Completely unbelievable, poor writing, rushed plot, did not feel fleshed out in any way, completely not organic in any way, was the most forced feeling scene in the history of TV, just did not feel real which is peoples gripes. Obviously you will never feel the same way so there is no point though. But yes this is majority opinion or you’ve been living under a rock.

The Jon Snow/Danny scene was even worse, as I said most people had zero reaction or emotion to that scene due to it being completely soulless. Forced, rushed, and not properly fleshed out to deliver it’s intended impact. 

 

[lancerman]

4 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

No, there are way more people who do not agree with the finale and overall season than agree with it. Not sure if you have friends in real life, go on reddit, youtube, etc. Where are any of these happy comments? At least 60% are dissatisfied, especially with the Danny situation. 

Also I actually agree with your last bit, yea Danny was always meant to be Mad Queen. We always knew that was the end result since Episode 1 of the whole series. However, it’s how we got there. Completely unbelievable, poor writing, rushed plot, did not feel fleshed out in any way, completely not organic in any way, was the most forced feeling scene in the history of TV, just did not feel real which is peoples gripes. Obviously you will never feel the same way so there is no point though. But yes this is majority opinion or you’ve been living under a rock.

The Jon Snow/Danny scene was even worse, as I said most people had zero reaction or emotion to that scene due to it being completely soulless. Forced, rushed, and not properly fleshed out to deliver it’s intended impact. 

 

Objectively show that it is a majority opinion or stop claiming it is 

[JonStark]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

No, there are way more people who do not agree with the finale and overall season than agree with it. Not sure if you have friends in real life, go on reddit, youtube, etc. Where are any of these happy comments? At least 60% are dissatisfied, especially with the Danny situation. 

Also I actually agree with your last bit, yea Danny was always meant to be Mad Queen. We always knew that was the end result since Episode 1 of the whole series. However, it’s how we got there. Completely unbelievable, poor writing, rushed plot, did not feel fleshed out in any way, completely not organic in any way, was the most forced feeling scene in the history of TV, just did not feel real which is peoples gripes. Obviously you will never feel the same way so there is no point though. But yes this is majority opinion or you’ve been living under a rock.

The Jon Snow/Danny scene was even worse, as I said most people had zero reaction or emotion to that scene due to it being completely soulless. Forced, rushed, and not properly fleshed out to deliver it’s intended impact. 

 

Actually the majority of people upset with the way the series ended are upset at Dany turned bad. There are a lot more casuals out there than there are those who watch every scene to pick small details out (or in some of the posters here's case, pick things apart). Those casuals didn't like seeing their hero turn to a villain. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by JonStark
I can't spell

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

No, there are way more people who do not agree with the finale and overall season than agree with it. Not sure if you have friends in real life, go on reddit, youtube, etc. Where are any of these happy comments? At least 60% are dissatisfied, especially with the Danny situation.

Satisfied people spend less time expressing their satisfaction than those that join a social media circle jerk to complain.

[BayRaider]

Just now, lancerman said:

Objectively show that it is a majority opinion or stop claiming it is 

Prove people thinking it made sense and wasn’t rushed to the point of being an utter mess is majority opinion. What makes you believe this ANYWHERE?

[BayRaider]

Just now, JonStark said:

Actually the majority of people upset with the way the series ended are upset at Dany turned bad. There are a lot more casuals out there than there are those who watch every scene to pick small details out (or in some of the posters here's case, pick things apart). Those casuals didn't like seeing their hero turn to a villain. 

No they aren’t, every single negative review I have read from top critics is how we got to Dannys turn and how sloppy and rushed it was, not her becoming bad. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Taken from Reddit, and I think this more clearly explains my view on the matter:

Quote

I have no problem with Daenerys’ storyline ending in her burning King’s Landing, even some commoners. I think it fits her character arc.

However, the show went about this very... strangely.

After the city surrendered, Daenerys’ decided not to stop. I expected her to go tear down the Red Keep and burn Cersei alive, killing whoever got caught in the middle.

But instead she proceeded to systematically kill every commoner she could find. She was going up and down streets like she was mowing the lawn. It was... strange.

I understand she wants to inspire fear but still, it was just weird. Burning down the Red Keep after the city surrendered would have inspired tons of fear. I don’t understand the need to kill every woman and child you see.

I think this was a ham fisted attempt by the writers. They got the main point right but got all the details wrong.

and also this comment:

Quote

I understand the "Daenerys is ruthless" points, but almost all of those situations were her attacking noblemen, slavers or other rulers on behalf of the poor, freed slaves or the general populace. She punched up constantly, sometimes violently and sometimes violently while accepting advice of some restraint.

In this episode, she just starts blindly and indiscriminately punching down. It's a wild turn for someone who chained two of her dragons because a single shepherd girl was killed by a young Drogon while he was hunting sheep.

Targaryean/coin flip

Yes, they've been saying "she may be crazy or she may be good", but then all of her plans end up basically being good and having the population loving her for saving them. She even puts her entire purpose for living on hold (and at risk) in order to help Jon and save the world. That was three episodes ago that she was clearly "not crazy" and pretty much "very noble and good".

If the gods flip a coin at birth, did they decide to have a do-over with Dany after the Battle for Winterfell?

508 – Daenerys “I’m not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.”

This statement doesn't strike me as foreshadowing, either. You can't quote the punchline without acknowledging the setup:

Lannister, Targaryen, Baratheon, Stark, Tyrell they're all just spokes on a wheel. This ones on top, then that ones on top and on and on it spins crushing those on the ground.

She's explicitly stating her intent to have a system that doesn't crush those on the ground, which is the opposite of what she does in the episode.

and lastly this:

Quote

You can foreshadow as much as you want but if you don't convince the audience of a character's motivation it's worthless.

Taken from this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/bo7l4u/spoilers_all_of_the_foreshadowing_that_lead_up_to/

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Also, in response to whoever said "Dany killing Dickon Tarly was foreshadowing":

Quote

People keep talking about her burning Randyll Tarly too (and Dickon who was stupid for following his dad).

Oh yeah, in case you guys forgot, Randyll Tarly was a ******* traitor and oathbreaker who helped the Lannister army take Highgarden (one of Dany's key allies) because he was offered to be Warden of the South.

Jon kills a ****load of people too, no one says it's foreshadowing him becoming the mad king.

and reply:

Quote

Yeah, If Dany had chopped off the Tarlys heads no one would have batted an eye. Executing traitors and people who refuse to bend the knee is what rulers do.

I think this poster meant to say Jon, not Dany.

[KingOfTheNorth]

1 minute ago, JonStark said:

Actually the majority of people upset with the way the series ended are upset at Dany turned bad. There are a lot more casuals out there than there are those who watch every scene to pick small details out (or in some of the posters here's case, pick things apart). Those casuals didn't like seeing their hero turn to a villain. 

This is very true and I think goes back to the bad writing. They spent a ridiculous amount of time hyping up the NK and Cercei as the main antagonists. If the end goal of these characters was to always have them die quickly in the end, one could make an argument that all that screen time would have been better served in setting up Dany as the ultimate antagonist. Her heal turn was epic but almost fell flat because they left so much to interpretation. The crazy disparity of people understanding the heel turn just proves that D&D failed to tell her story.

[JonStark]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

No they aren’t, every single negative review I have read from top critics is how we got to Dannys turn and how sloppy and rushed it was, not her becoming bad. 

Oh so now we're just talking critics? Thought you were just talking about the public in general. Remember, there were actually people out there who named their kid Daenerys. You think they give a crap how she ended up burning down a city? 

[JonStark]

3 minutes ago, KingOfTheNorth said:

This is very true and I think goes back to the bad writing. They spent a ridiculous amount of time hyping up the NK and Cercei as the main antagonists. If the end goal of these characters was to always have them die quickly in the end, one could make an argument that all that screen time would have been better served in setting up Dany as the ultimate antagonist. Her heal turn was epic but almost fell flat because they left so much to interpretation. The crazy disparity of people understanding the heel turn just proves that D&D failed to tell her story.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. There's no debate that D&D fell flat, but we were given enough to see how the turn would fit into her arc in previous seasons (even if more would've been better). Some people just need to be spoonfed. 

[BayRaider]

These Final Three Episodes (minus one episode in Season 5) are the three lowest rated episodes on Rotten Tomatoes of all time by Critics, averaging around 40% or so. Critics, very top and respected critics,  absolutely rip apart the final three episodes of this show as a rushed and utter mess. There biggest gripe is how Danny’s situation happened. Rushed and sloppy writing, did not feel organic to anyone. 

Also if you go on Reddit, Youtube, basically any social media outlet fans completely hate the final three episodes, once again a rushed sloppy mess, especially Dannys situation. These are the same posters that praised the show for seven seasons and big in the GoT Reddit community. 

Also real life, I haven’t met a single person who actually enjoyed the final three episodes more than they didn’t enjoy them. I thought Episode 4 and 6 were terrible in every conceivable way. Episode 5 I enjoyed outside of the Danny burning the city made zero sense and was a rushed writing scenario to get fans/her army to turn on her quickly with little time. 

@lancerman @Outpost31 and @JonStark always have to have the loudest voice in the room and always try to assume their opinion as fact. Have had several bouts with these guys over the years. Pointless. 

@Leader is fine though, I just respectfully disagree. 

[JonStark]

4 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

These Final Three Episodes (minus one episode in Season 5) are the three lowest rated episodes on Rotten Tomatoes of all time by Critics, averaging around 40% or so. Critics, very top and respected critics,  absolutely rip apart the final three episodes of this show as a rushed and utter mess. There biggest gripe is how Danny’s situation happened. Rushed and sloppy writing, did not feel organic to anyone. 

Also if you go on Reddit, Youtube, basically any social media outlet fans completely hate the final three episodes, once again a rushed sloppy mess, especially Dannys situation. These are the same posters that praised the show for seven seasons and big in the GoT Reddit community. 

Also real life, I haven’t met a single person who actually enjoyed the final three episodes more than they didn’t enjoy them. I thought Episode 4 and 6 were terrible in every conceivable way. Episode 5 I enjoyed outside of the Danny burning the city made zero sense and was a rushed writing scenario to get fans/her army to turn on her quickly with little time. 

@lancerman @Outpost31 and @JonStark always have to have the loudest voice in the room and always try to assume their opinion as fact. Have had several bouts with these guys over the years. Pointless. 

@Leader is fine though, I just respectfully disagree. 

Weird, I don't remember any spats with you? I do think it's funny how you say we say that our opinion is fact, when you and @AFlaccoSeagulls were the two saying "any reasonable person" or "any rational" person wouldn't see it the way we do. If it's pointless, why are you still here? Go discuss or do something that isn't pointless and that you actually enjoy. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by JonStark
I seriously suck at spelling

[lancerman]

17 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Prove people thinking it made sense and wasn’t rushed to the point of being an utter mess is majority opinion. What makes you believe this ANYWHERE?

You made the claim. Burden of proof is on you