NFL General Random Thoughts Thread

[RaidersAreOne]

Ooof.

 

[SkippyX]

11 minutes ago, Danger said:

Wentz beats Foles 11 times out of 10 when you look at what they did side by side. Can't wait for the season to start so all the mouth breathing Folesians will realize reality.

11 out of 10 dentists pretend Wentz was better on the field than Foles. That's amazing stuff!

• Thanks for that. 

Its OK to love or even worship Wentz without pretending Foles was not great.

What Foles did between 2013-2018 with the Eagles makes him the greatest Eagles QB in histroy.

• Include 2012 and he is a better Eagle QB than Wentz has been... SO FAR

Wentz is free to outshine him over the next 10 years. I hope he does.

If Wentz wins the next 6 Super Bowls it does not stop Foles from being a great Eagle.

• The WINS are reality
• The STATS are reality.
• Your OPINION is not reality.

[Danger]

Just now, SkippyX said:

Its OK to love or even worship Wentz without pretending Foles was not great.

What Foles did between 2013-2018 with the Eagles makes him the greatest Eagles QB in histroy.

• Include 2012 and he is a better Eagle QB than Wentz has been... SO FAR

Wentz is free to outshine him over the next 10 years. I hope he does.

If Wentz wins the next 6 Super Bowls it does not stop Foles from being a great Eagle.

• The WINS are reality
• The STATS are reality.
• Your OPINION is not reality.

Foles will forever hold a special place in Philadelphia Sports history. But lets not dance around the bush. Carson is a superior quarterback now, and has a FAR higher ceiling. Wins are reality, and the team is in a better position to win more games with Carson at QB than Nick, because Carson is the superior quarterback. Stats are used to deceive far more often than they are to tell an actual truth. Trying to honestly suggest that Nick gives the team a better chance to win than Carson is just reactionary naivety by the ignorant and simple minded.

[Danger]

13 minutes ago, Danger said:

Statistics are often times lies, because people will go out of their way to seek out statistics to validate their preconceived notion, and if they find that it does not fit their agenda, they'll discount it and look for something else. Statistics without context are absurdities.

I can make statistical magic too, look what happens when you throw out the one fluke year Foles had 27:2 when no one actually understood what the hell Chip Kelly was doing. 

Here are his numbers:

45 games- 
761/1264 (60.2%) - 8274 Yards (6.5 YPA) - 41 TD (3.2%) - 30 INT (2.4%) - 80.5 Passer Rating 

More games played than TDs thrown. among many other unimpressive statistics.

Lets further expand on this:

Blake Bortles Passing Statistics for Career Games 2014 to 2018

		Games		Passing																Passing
Year	Tm	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD
2014-2018	JAX	75	73	24-49-0	1561	2632	59.3	17646	103	3.9	75	2.8	90	6.7	6.2	11.3	235.3	80.6		195	1158	5.83	5.37	6.9

Nick Foles outside of the 27:2 year, has basically been Blake Bortles.

[SkippyX]

1 hour ago, Kiltman said:

No I watch the games, football isn’t played in excel spreadsheets.

you can look at stats with no context and convince yourself of anything.

Like using their career numbers like this is silly. Wentz’ rookie numbers tank most of his stats considerably. He had half the touchdowns and twice the interceptions on a team that wasn’t very good. He had Ertz and his next best guys were Jordan Matthews and Dorian Green-Beckham. That’s the kind of context that’s probably relevant. 

Sure we can hold that against him, he played those games. But in an argument like this it’s silly, he was a rookie QB with really no help around him. 

I can also watch the Bears game and say Wentz probably has a decent shot to be better than Foles’ performance...which wasn’t all that good most of that game.

 

I watched Foles win a Super Bowl by outscoring a red hot Brady who threw for 504 yards.

• He was even better than the numbers because his pick hit Alshon in the hand/shoulder while the DB was holding his other arm.

I watched him beat the best D in the league in the playoffs 2 years in a row.

I watched Foles go 6 for 7 in game winning drive situations with the 1 miss going off of Alshon Jeffrey's hands.

I watched Foles go 11-2 in high pressure games (must win for playoffs, needed for a bye or #1 seed, or  playoffs)

• Wentz has not even played in a game like that yet! (Rams 2017 would be the closest to it)

 

Eagles fans who don't think Foles was incredible are pathetic.

Eagles fans who don't understand his 2014 are as smart as NFL Chip Kelly.

The ones who do think Foles was great ALSO love Wentz and can't wait to see him succeed.

The anti-Foles crowd are demented and sad.

 

They focus on the week 17 exhibition at Dallas and the first 2 games in 2018 when Jeffrey was out, Goeddert got benched for bad play, and Ertz had some dropsies.

• Look at some of the guys who got targets in weeks 1 and 2 last year. I can't even remember one of the WRs or the backup TE vs Tampa.

 

You can watch every throw from that week 17 Dallas game.

• He was 2 for 3 for 23 yards when he hit Torrey Smith in the hands for a 10-37 yard play. (possible score or red zone opportunity)
  • Smith dropped it.
• 2 of his incompletions were throw-away's from a blown up screen and a falling down Trey Burton.
• Yes, he had 1 really, really, bad interception.

They hate Foles over this game instead of loving him for the Super Bowl.

The game was not real! They already had the #1 seed!  It was a 6-0 joke!

The worst of them were upset that Foles won the Super Bowl. They wanted to wait for next year with Wentz. (there are 100s of these morons)

Only in Philly...

[Kiltman]

50 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

I watched Foles win a Super Bowl by outscoring a red hot Brady who threw for 504 yards.

• He was even better than the numbers because his pick hit Alshon in the hand/shoulder while the DB was holding his other arm.

I watched him beat the best D in the league in the playoffs 2 years in a row.

I watched Foles go 6 for 7 in game winning drive situations with the 1 miss going off of Alshon Jeffrey's hands.

I watched Foles go 11-2 in high pressure games (must win for playoffs, needed for a bye or #1 seed, or  playoffs)

• Wentz has not even played in a game like that yet! (Rams 2017 would be the closest to it)

 

Eagles fans who don't think Foles was incredible are pathetic.

Eagles fans who don't understand his 2014 are as smart as NFL Chip Kelly.

The ones who do think Foles was great ALSO love Wentz and can't wait to see him succeed.

The anti-Foles crowd are demented and sad.

 

They focus on the week 17 exhibition at Dallas and the first 2 games in 2018 when Jeffrey was out, Goeddert got benched for bad play, and Ertz had some dropsies.

• Look at some of the guys who got targets in weeks 1 and 2 last year. I can't even remember one of the WRs or the backup TE vs Tampa.

 

You can watch every throw from that week 17 Dallas game.

• He was 2 for 3 for 23 yards when he hit Torrey Smith in the hands for a 10-37 yard play. (possible score or red zone opportunity)
  • Smith dropped it.
• 2 of his incompletions were throw-away's from a blown up screen and a falling down Trey Burton.
• Yes, he had 1 really, really, bad interception.

They hate Foles over this game instead of loving him for the Super Bowl.

The game was not real! They already had the #1 seed!  It was a 6-0 joke!

The worst of them were upset that Foles won the Super Bowl. They wanted to wait for next year with Wentz. (there are 100s of these morons)

Only in Philly...

Never said anything about him being horrible, I even alluded to there being really no way Wentz could be better than him in the SB and NFCCG.

but if you want to concoct this huge anti Foles narrative that people don’t appreciate him for the Super Bowl, that’s your prerogative man.

Thats not what anyone is saying.

All I’m saying is Evanescence and Smash Mouth both have hit tracks back in the day, but nobody is out here arguing they are the best bands of all time. We have context, the late 90s-early 2000s was a hellscape for culture and music. And can look at their individual tracks and see that that performance didn’t hold up. 

Nick Foles’ Super Bowl run was My Immortal and Bring me to Life...or if you rather...those last two games were AllStar, and some of the games (not including the bears game) was Smash Mouth’s work on Shrek

[SkippyX]

55 minutes ago, Danger said:

Lets further expand on this:

Blake Bortles Passing Statistics for Career Games 2014 to 2018

 

		Games		Passing																Passing
Year	Tm	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD
2014-2018	JAX	75	73	24-49-0	1561	2632	59.3	17646	103	3.9	75	2.8	90	6.7	6.2	11.3	235.3	80.6		195	1158	5.83	5.37	6.9

Nick Foles outside of the 27:2 year, has basically been Blake Bortles.

Ah, the old outside of 81, 84, 88, and 89 Montana was a schmoe argument. 

Remember the demented people I was referencing before? 

 

Stats for morons! Now Bortles is better than Steve Young!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm#1985-1990-sum:passing

 

The kind of person who looks at their Super Bowl winning QB and has to go Jeff Fisher 2015...

 

 

 

[SkippyX]

Wentz has not had a top 40 hit yet... so he is not even Smashmouth.

I still hope he winds up being Elvis.

[Danger]

4 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Ah, the old outside of 81, 84, 88, and 89 Montana was a schmoe argument. 

Remember the demented people I was referencing before? 

 

Stats for morons! Now Bortles is better than Steve Young!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm#1985-1990-sum:passing

 

The kind of person who looks at their Super Bowl winning QB and has to go Jeff Fisher 2015...

Stats aren't for morons, but when they're looked at in a vacuum without context they're for people who are looking to simply validate their existing viewpoint.

Once again "Bortles > Steve Young" lacks key context of era. 4 years does not define a fluke, 1 year can be more reasonably attributed to as a fluke.

For what it's worth. I expect Foles' Passer Rating this season to be around 90 give or take a few points up or down.

[Danger]

3 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Wentz has not had a top 40 hit yet... so he is not even Smashmouth.

I still hope he winds up being Elvis.

He was on pace to be Kurt Cobain before his season was tragically cut short. oh, right.

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[SkippyX]

Foles has 18 regular season games with a rating over 100. Which ones are flukes?

He has 4 more in the playoffs. Which ones are flukes?

That's 22 games out of about 52 tries. (42.3%)

• Bortles has 14 in 61 after his rookie year. (22.3%)
• Wentz has 13 in 24 after his rookie season (54.1%)
• Luck had 25 in 78 tries after his rookie year (32.1%)
• Wilson has 53 in 107 during that time (49.5%)
• Cousins has 33 in about 63 games (52.4%)
• Ryan has 46 in 101 since the start of 2013 (45.5%)

He is 27-7 in real games where his team has relied on him outside of Jeff Fisher Land since he finished learning during his rookie year on a 4-12 coach-killer team.

How many of those 27 team wins were flukes?

 

Foles had 6 games of 100+ rating in 12 real games with the 17-18 Eagles

He had 1 in 2 with the 2016 Chiefs.

 

The 2017-2018 Eagles were 10-2 in real games with Foles and 16-8 with Wentz.

Can you point out which of those 26 wins were flukes?

[Kiltman]

Why when stats are used is there always some things are used and others not. Like if you throw out Fisher/Foles...do you then go into Wentz’ rookie year on plays like the one Giants game where they were in position to tie/win but Doug went for it on 4th with a bad play call and took away a comeback win and a sack? Or is that too granular. 

[Danger]

21 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

The 2017-2018 Eagles were 10-2 in real games with Foles and 16-8 with Wentz.

Can you point out which of those 26 wins were flukes?

Jim Schwartz' poor defensive scheming late in games cost the Eagles 3 wins last year when Wentz was starting. And you're bringing up something that wasn't even being talked about. His 2013 season, where nobody knew how to counter Chip Kelly was a fluke, and there is a clear traceable answer as to why Foles' numbers are so much higher in that season than the entire rest of his career. Jeff Fisher didn't do him favors but lets not pretend that Foles was a franchise guy outside of those years either. Carson clearly is, health permitting. 

[CKS97]

12 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

8 games you say? So he'll come back just in time for the part of the season where the big boys play. Awesome. 

Or he'll just show he's not THAT good.

This is the year New England finally cracks.