2019 Draft Discussion

[Fl0nkerton]

6 minutes ago, Leader said:

Dont know much about Winovich personally but I'm unimpessed by his physical stature. Played at Michigan in a good Conference - so clearly he's not a chump - but I dont see him winning with OTs based on his strength. I hope we dont draft him. 

?
He's the same size as Clay basically. Maybe a little heavier.
 

[cannondale]

Guys we've met with thus far

Nick Brossette, RB, LSU (EW)

Blace Brown, CB, Troy (EW)

Lukas Denis, S, Boston College (EW)

Noah Fant, TE, Iowa (COM)

Penny Hart, WR, Georgia State (SR)

Daylon Mack, DT/NT, Texas A&M (EW)

Ed Oliver, DT, Houston (COM)

Jachai Polite, DE/3-4OLB/OLB, Florida (COM)

Jace Sternberger, TE, Texas A&M (COM)

Jawaan Taylor, OT, Florida (COM)

Cody Thompson, WR, Toledo (EW)

Olisaemeka Udoh, OT, Elon (EW)

 

Last year we met with Tim Boyle, Oren Burks, Kendall Donnerson, J'Mon Moore, Marquez Valdez-Scantling, (Natrell Jamerson)

 

 

[Leader]

6 minutes ago, Fl0nkerton said:

?
He's the same size as Clay basically. Maybe a little heavier.
 

My comment wasnt clear. I wasn't referring to size "per se" - but rather his conditioning. I think I've got better muscle tone than he does (thats a bit of a joke...but you can actually see some muscle definition on me.).

I commented somewhere back when that he reminded me of Biegel (not is size and such.....) in so much as VB also didnt look capable of winning physical matchups with NFL OT's.

[rcon14]

19 minutes ago, Leader said:

Dont know much about Winovich personally but I'm unimpessed by his physical stature. Played at Michigan in a good Conference - so clearly he's not a chump - but I dont see him winning with OTs based on his strength. I hope we dont draft him. 

If you're asking him to win with strength, you're using him wrong and that's a you problem not a him problem.

[packfanfb]

27 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

No 40 yet for Adderley, but 38" vert and 10' 9" broad tell me it's going to be 4.49 or better.

Saying between 4.5 and 4.6. Looks like unofficial 4.51.

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

If you're asking him to win with strength, you're using him wrong and that's a you problem not a him problem.

Okay fine....but if he cant get off (or away) from an OT's hands/grasp - thats a him problem - and I dont believe his speed so unique or dominating that he's not going to have to win some mano y mano matchups.

You saying his speed moves are so unique that he's gonna just fly past them? I dont see it - but (certainly) dont take my opinion (as I've already said, I dont know the guy) - but from TDN:

Burst - Not a highly explosive athlete. Can be slow off the ball and doesn't get a great jump at all times.

Rush Moves - Elite combination of moves and ability to work various plans of attack to get home. Maximizes his average physical and athletic tools by having a plan of attack and consistently executing. Terrific job of showing hands and then attacking his opponent's punch when he overreacts.

Counters - Consistently works to get to the quarterback, although his secondary moves are more last resort dramatic effort than anything formulated in his plan of attack.

Lateral Mobility - Labored lateral mover who struggles to change directions quickly.

Mental Processing/Vision - Knows what to do in unblocked situations. (Well thats good. So would I)

Competitive Toughness - One of the toughest, most physical football players on the planet.

Athleticism/Size - Outstanding size, length and build for an edge defender, but lacks the ideal burst, arc speed and hip flexibility to be super dangerous on the outside track.

I'm not ragging on the guy - but my visual impressions are backed up by these reports. He's a mixed bag - at a position of need for us that I'd prefer passing on "maybe-like" talent.
 

[rcon14]

2 minutes ago, Leader said:

Okay fine....but if he cant get off (or away) from an OT's hands/grasp - thats a him problem - and I dont believe his speed so unique or dominating that he's not going to have to win some mano y mano matchups.

You saying his speed moves are so unique that he's gonna just fly past them? I dont see it - but (certainly) dont take my opinion (as I've already said, I dont know the guy) - but from TDN:

Burst - Not a highly explosive athlete. Can be slow off the ball and doesn't get a great jump at all times.

Rush Moves - Elite combination of moves and ability to work various plans of attack to get home. Maximizes his average physical and athletic tools by having a plan of attack and consistently executing. Terrific job of showing hands and then attacking his opponent's punch when he overreacts.

Counters - Consistently works to get to the quarterback, although his secondary moves are more last resort dramatic effort than anything formulated in his plan of attack.

Lateral Mobility - Labored lateral mover who struggles to change directions quickly.

Mental Processing/Vision - Knows what to do in unblocked situations. (Well thats good. So would I)

Competitive Toughness - One of the toughest, most physical football players on the planet.

Athleticism/Size - Outstanding size, length and build for an edge defender, but lacks the ideal burst, arc speed and hip flexibility to be super dangerous on the outside track.

I'm not ragging on the guy - but my visual impressions are backed up by these reports. He's a mixed bag - at a position of need for us that I'd prefer passing on "maybe-like" talent.
 

A good half of that scouting report doesn't come close to lining up with how athletic we now objectively know that he is.

[packfanfb]

 

Pulled hammy after a single 40-yard sprint. Guy's a Packer through and through. 

[Leader]

1 minute ago, rcon14 said:

A good half of that scouting report doesn't come close to lining up with how athletic we now objectively know that he is.

Okay. Fine. Just passing on an opinion. To me, he doesnt look like a game changer - now. After a year or two of NFL training? Could be.
As already stated, he got into and played at Michigan - not Saginaw Valley - against some top comp - which counts for something.

[rcon14]

2 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

 

Pulled hammy after a single 40-yard sprint. Guy's a Packer through and through. 

4.52 with a tweaked hammy is pretty good. Unfortunate that he won't finish the drills.

[deathstar]

2 minutes ago, Leader said:

Okay. Fine. Just passing on an opinion. To me, he doesnt look like a game changer - now. After a year or two of NFL training? Could be.
As already stated, he got into and played at Michigan - not Saginaw Valley - against some top comp - which counts for something.

I understand your concerns. He’s a second rounder who was super productive and has high athletic upside. IMO a second round edge would be in perfect position to develop with Z Smith going inside on third downs.

[Leader]

8 minutes ago, deathstar said:

I understand your concerns. He’s a second rounder who was super productive and has high athletic upside. IMO a second round edge would be in perfect position to develop with Z Smith going inside on third downs.

Ya see? Thats why I want Burns in the first round.....so we dont have any second round EDGE concerns And.....in this land of the possible......I'm hoping GB uses #30 to move up somewhere and snag CGJ or Adderley. For me (?) the rest of the draft would be gravy! Have at it Gute....knock yourself out LOL

[ThatJerkDave]

17 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

 

Pulled hammy after a single 40-yard sprint. Guy's a Packer through and through. 

Was this a "pulled hammy" like Michael Johnson had when he raced Donovan Bailey in the 150m race? 

4.52? This is the second coming of Earl Thomas? Come on.  I'm all the way out on Nas.  Let's just draft Jay-Z.

[rcon14]

4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Was this a "pulled hammy" like Michael Johnson had when he raced Donovan Bailey in the 150m race? 

4.52? This is the second coming of Earl Thomas? Come on.  I'm all the way out on Nas.  Let's just draft Jay-Z.

Was anyone actually saying he was Earl Thomas? Like, a single person?

[Packers Select]

Not to be Mr. Naysayer, but I can't stand the influx of those who run one slower than anticipated 40-yard dash, then save face with a convenient muscle pull and tell everyone to refer to the game tape. I'm sure there are quite a few legitimate cases and this gripe isn't about this specific instance because it could be legit, but the transparency of these choices being 100% an agent move is just laughable. Indirectly tie your time with an injury, and save/boost your draft stock trend and draft slot value. Scouts will say "Oh man, he ran slow..but he did get hurt" or "Oh man, he ran pretty decent, but he must be blazing if he ran that with an INSERT INJURY". Either run or don't run, but don't test the waters...you should know what kind of speed guy you are. Plenty of success stories either way.

It's the old pro-wrestling trick of losing by your opponent cheating or losing while having an "injury". Keeps your reputation and fourth-wall appearance clean because those invested will say "....well you know, he/she REALLY didn't lose....".