J-ALL-DAY Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: And only one of those teams had a WR you could say is in the top 5 WR/elite conversation, which further proves my point. You don't have to have a elite WR to have an elite offense. The two don't go hand and hand. More than one way to skin a cat...that's all I'm saying. Once again I fully acknowledge that. Different ways to build a team and elite offenses. But you know what offense would be a good comparison to ours with AB? The Chiefs. They have Hill who was elite this year, they have an elite TE in Kelce and another good WR in Watkins. AB would be our Hill, and likely better. Kittle would be our Kelce. Pettis our Watkins. And then McKinnon/Breida would be our Hunt/Williams. Good luck stopping that offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John232 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I said getting someone like Ford/Houston, then ET in free agency, and OBJ in a trade back. And at #6 we can take a pass rusher like Burns. So yeah, I do think our defense would be good enough with this being our DL: Houston/Burns/Buckner/Thomas/Armstead/Blair. Wouldn't be a great defense just with the additions of Houston/Burns/ET, but definitely better than what we had last year. And in the other scenario where we would have traded for ET and drafted Bosa at #2 while still getting someone like Houston? Again, to me our defense drastically improves and becomes good enough. Our DL would be damn good, our secondary play automatically improves with the improved pass rush and with the addition of ET. Then offensively we would be absolutely loaded with OBJ/AB, Kittle, Pettis, Goodwin, Taylor, Breida, McKinnon and Juice Check. To me a team consisting of that talent can compete for a SB. Obviously Jimmy G will have to check out as being the real deal for this to happen. But if he's not then everything else is irrelevant as this team will still be years away from competing until they get a legitimate QB. I'm sorry but I don't see anything given up in compensation or the contract that makes me hesitant to trade for AB. Just a month ago we were talking about giving up a 2019 2nd and 2020 3rd for him. Now we are worried about giving up a 3rd and possibly a 4th this year next year for an elite player? Come on now. No problem if you think his attitude is an issue, but compensation is not a good excuse for not wanting him. edit: pretty sure I had a miniature stroke with my first sentence *Because a month ago I'm pretty sure when everyone was pro AB (myself included) it didn't include negotiating a contract he just signed. As for your first part, yeah, I'm all for trading back, getting OBJ, getting Ford and Burns and signing ET. But the odds of all of that happening is relatively low. And I don't think we're going to ever get good value in that trade for OBJ, as discussed in our conversation yesterday. If we have to start giving up future 1st/2nd round picks for OBJ, it becomes sketchier because we have a lot of needs on the horizon too Really important things that need to get filled soon. like OT, possibly another corner, paying Buck and Kittle (probably 30 million between those two) .And holding onto high draft capital is still the best way to acquire talent at great cost. Personally opinions on draft prospects aside, I just also value what I think Bosa will be way more than what I value who Odell currently is. I look at Bosa as being a potential perennial pro-bowler at a far more important position and also a position of dire need. I also feel like I should mention I do view Odell and AB differently. I MUCH prefer Odell (and always have) just based on age and I think his specific "problems" are waaaay more overblown, while I think Browns have sort have been swept under the rug until the last year, largely because he's not in NY. I prefer Odell because Odell is a long term piece to me, he's someone we can give a 5 year contract too and expect him to maintain that level of play while he's on our team into his early 30's. Though Odell certainly isn't without his own issues. Edited March 10, 2019 by John232 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Once again I fully acknowledge that. Different ways to build a team and elite offenses. But you know what offense would be a good comparison to ours with AB? The Chiefs. They have Hill who was elite this year, they have an elite TE in Kelce and another good WR in Watkins. AB would be our Hill, and likely better. Kittle would be our Kelce. Pettis our Watkins. And then McKinnon/Breida would be our Hunt/Williams. Good luck stopping that offense. I understand what you're saying but it was Mahommes that made that offense special. They pretty much had the same weapons with Smith@QB and they we're getting bounced after their first playoff game, year after year. I said that to say in the NFL, it only pays to be elite at one position. Honestly though, there are only a few positions where I feel elite talent impacts wins and losses directly....QB, pass-rusher whether it be interior D-Line or on the edge, and safety. Edited March 10, 2019 by 757-NINER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Osemele to the Jets, Houston officially released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-catch Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 5 hours ago, PapaShogun said: For someone of his stature, even at 31 years old, that's a trade you should probably pull the trigger on. Personally, I'm indifferent about it. Yes, it would have been exciting to have Brown, but at the same time he's getting paid $54 million over the next three seasons with his next contract. How is 54mil over 3 yrs insane (and that's if he fully reaches all incentives)?? Sammy Watkins got 3yr 48mil last year, and that was Watkins and that was last yr. This yr a similar deal would cost more. As far as age, that's no as much of a concern. At least not for the length of the contract. WRs aren't like RBS, many do well into their mid 30s vs crashing in the early 30s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: I understand what you're saying but it was Mahommes that made that offense special. They pretty much had the same weapons with Smith@QB and they we're getting bounced after their first playoff game, year after year. I said that to say in the NFL, it only pays to be elite at one position... Sure, Mahomes is a monster but he definitely had a whole a lot of talent surrounding him. Same would happen for Jimmy G getting OBJ/AB. And if we can't be a dominant offense with that level of talent, then Jimmy G just isn't that guy. But even Smith with that talent put up great stats. Compare his last season in KC to Washington this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Sure, Mahomes is a monster but he definitely had a whole a lot of talent surrounding him. Same would happen for Jimmy G getting OBJ/AB. And if we can't be a dominant offense with that level of talent, then Jimmy G just isn't that guy. But even Smith with that talent put up great stats. Compare his last season in KC to Washington this year. That Smith team went one and done in the playoffs, and despite the great stats and mvp like first half of the season, they went through a really bad stretch of games at one point (losing 6 of 7), and while the offense was fine in 2017, it wasn't the same as what they had last year. Last year, they average an entire point more per drive than that 2017 team. That is a huuuuuuuuuuuuge difference. That 2017 team was 6th in yrds/dr, 6th in pts/dr (with a huge difference in the latter), compared to 1/1 last year. They completed 39% of their third downs in 2017 compared to 47% last year. They were first in offensive dvoa last year, 10th the year before. These are some huge differences, and as you said, the main difference was Mahomes / Smith. Now, don't get me wrong. If we have an offense more in line with the Alex Smith led Chiefs, that's fine. But it's not elite, at least not to a point where it can carry us like the Chiefs offense did last year. A lot of that is going to depend on what Jimmy G is. Unfortunately, at this point, we have no idea. He could be worse than Smith, could be better (have a hard time imagining that he's going to do what Mahomes did last year though lol). I don't hate the comp to the 2017 chiefs offense though, and we could field a much better defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Forge said: That Smith team went one and done in the playoffs, and despite the great stats and mvp like first half of the season, they went through a really bad stretch of games at one point (losing 6 of 7), and while the offense was fine in 2017, it wasn't the same as what they had last year. Last year, they average an entire point more per drive than that 2017 team. That is a huuuuuuuuuuuuge difference. That 2017 team was 6th in yrds/dr, 6th in pts/dr (with a huge difference in the latter), compared to 1/1 last year. They completed 39% of their third downs in 2017 compared to 47% last year. They were first in offensive dvoa last year, 10th the year before. These are some huge differences, and as you said, the main difference was Mahomes / Smith. Now, don't get me wrong. If we have an offense more in line with the Alex Smith led Chiefs, that's fine. But it's not elite, at least not to a point where it can carry us like the Chiefs offense did last year. A lot of that is going to depend on what Jimmy G is. Unfortunately, at this point, we have no idea. He could be worse than Smith, could be better (have a hard time imagining that he's going to do what Mahomes did last year though lol). I don't hate the comp to the 2017 chiefs offense though, and we could field a much better defense. But my point wasn't that Smith is as good as Mahomes, he clearly isn't on that level. Just that when Smith had those weapons, he looked MUCH better than he did this year in Washington. Our weapons if we would have traded for AB or do trade for OBJ will be on par with the Chiefs, if not superior. Then it will be on Jimmy G to fulfill the potential of this offense and make it elite. But just the weapons KC has would be a good comparison to our weapons with AB/OBJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: But my point wasn't that Smith is as good as Mahomes, he clearly isn't on that level. Just that when Smith had those weapons, he looked MUCH better than he did this year in Washington. Our weapons if we would have traded for AB or do trade for OBJ will be on par with the Chiefs, if not superior. Then it will be on Jimmy G to fulfill the potential of this offense and make it elite. But just the weapons KC has would be a good comparison to our weapons with AB/OBJ. Oh. Well that changes things. Yeah, I agree with you lol. I love that comparable. With OBJ / AB, this offense would be very 2017 KCish (and I think Jimmy would probably slot in very similarly to how Smith played that year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) KC just released Houston...now this is definitely a situation Lynch & Co. should be all over. Edited March 10, 2019 by 757-NINER 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, the-catch said: How is 54mil over 3 yrs insane (and that's if he fully reaches all incentives)?? Sammy Watkins got 3yr 48mil last year, and that was Watkins and that was last yr. This yr a similar deal would cost more. As far as age, that's no as much of a concern. At least not for the length of the contract. WRs aren't like RBS, many do well into their mid 30s vs crashing in the early 30s. Sammy Watkins is overpaid. Personally, I think that's a lot for a receiver that is 31 years old, and you have as many problems as the Raiders do. Watkins is 25 at least. They should have saved that money and just paid Mack, who is younger, and plays at a far more important role on the team. Edited March 10, 2019 by PapaShogun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcFinest9erFan Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said: It was Osemele + Chicago's 6th for the Jets' 5th. I really like the move for the Jets. May not work out, but it's a really good risk / reward / compensation trade for them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 https://247sports.com/nfl/detroit-lions/Article/Hard-Knocks-choice-Lions-HBO-129787919/ Looks like we are going to be safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, Forge said: https://247sports.com/nfl/detroit-lions/Article/Hard-Knocks-choice-Lions-HBO-129787919/ Looks like we are going to be safe Such a blah choice lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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