What happened to the Saints defense?

[TheKillerNacho]

18 hours ago, Dome said:

Well to be fair to Williams he’s a terrible defensive back and is just doing what we all expected lol

 

but yeah I agree with everything in your post.

Wasn't Williams supposed to be good or something?

EDIT: Nevermind. I see you guys were talking about PJ Williams, not Marcus Williams. Ignore me.

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

The situation he’s been in? Dude got blanketed at times last year and has had suspect hands before. You’re going to give Evans a pass but ignore that Thomas catches a lot of short-intermediate routes because Brees has about zero deep ball ability now? Their isn’t a huge discrepancy but Michael Thomas is playing like the best WR in the league right now. Do we not remember him roasting Xavier Rhodes multiple times in that playoff game? People should’ve seen this coming.

This should be moved to the overreaction thread. Wow, he beat Rhodes last year. Maybe you forgot Evans roasting Lattimore in Week 1? Weren't you Saints fans hyping Lattimore as the best CB in football just last year?

3 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

This is just funny to me that you want Evans over Thomas.

Brees has spread the ball around to 7-9 DIFFERENT receivers in each game this year. So if that many players are getting targets, why do you suppose Thomas is getting so many?

How about this... because Brees knows he'll get open! That can't be said for Evans. Everyone is talking Fitzmagic and all his crazy stats, Brees has had 18 more pass attempts, yet Thomas has 15 more snaggs (10 more targets (3.3 per game)). This tells me Evans isn't trusted by the crazy gunslinger, and he can't get open like Thomas can.

Dominant in the red zone??? He's had 1 redzone TD this season, and only 3 all of last season. I'll give you 2016, but don't come at it like he's some super freak redzone threat.
All but 2 of Michael Thomas' career TD's have been in the redzone, so who's the threat?

So pray tell, what situation has Mike Evans been in that he's so "dominant" yet "underrated" all at the same time?

1. Why is Thomas targeted so much? May have to do with the fact that Brees is averaging 43 attempts per game.

2. Or it tells you that Fitzpatrick is a bad QB on a hot streak. Did you watch the game yesterday?

3. Mike Evans = 367 receiving yards and 3 TDs on 30 targets; Michael Thomas = 398 receiving yards and 3 TDs on 40 targets . . . Pretty clear to me who has the better numbers. There's also the fact that Evans is doing it with Fitzpatrick against the Saints (Lattimore), Eagles, and Steelers. Thomas did it with Brees against the Bucs (no Grimes), Browns, and Falcons.

4. I will "pray tell." RIGHT NOW! He's underrated right now. 

[Mid Iowa]

3 hours ago, jrry32 said:

This should be moved to the overreaction thread. Wow, he beat Rhodes last year. Maybe you forgot Evans roasting Lattimore in Week 1? Weren't you Saints fans hyping Lattimore as the best CB in football just last year?

1. Why is Thomas targeted so much? May have to do with the fact that Brees is averaging 43 attempts per game.

2. Or it tells you that Fitzpatrick is a bad QB on a hot streak. Did you watch the game yesterday?

3. Mike Evans = 367 receiving yards and 3 TDs on 30 targets; Michael Thomas = 398 receiving yards and 3 TDs on 40 targets . . . Pretty clear to me who has the better numbers. There's also the fact that Evans is doing it with Fitzpatrick against the Saints (Lattimore), Eagles, and Steelers. Thomas did it with Brees against the Bucs (no Grimes), Browns, and Falcons.

4. I will "pray tell." RIGHT NOW! He's underrated right now. 

Yeah, I watched the games. And as you said, he's easily covered. Thanks for making my point for me.

Brees spreads the ball around, and so does Fitzpatrick. Evans doesn't see as much action because he's not as good, and not as open. And maybe some lack of imagination from the coaches play calling.

[Jimmy Austin]

The NFC South is going to be the NFL version of the Big 12 this year. 

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

Yeah, I watched the games. And as you said, he's easily covered. Thanks for making my point for me.

Brees spreads the ball around, and so does Fitzpatrick. Evans doesn't see as much action because he's not as good, and not as open. And maybe some lack of imagination from the coaches play calling.

Yeah, he sure was easily covered yesterday. His 137 yards and a TD were mighty unimpressive. Remind me . . . how many yards and TDs did Thomas have on Sunday against the Falcons?

Bad opinion is bad.

[Mid Iowa]

14 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Yeah, he sure was easily covered yesterday. His 137 yards and a TD were mighty unimpressive. Remind me . . . how many yards and TDs did Thomas have on Sunday against the Falcons?

Bad opinion is bad.

Steelers gave up 6 TD's to Patrick Mahomes and is atrocious this season. The only teams worse than the Steelers are the Chiefs, the Saints (who Evans did well against), and the Buccs. 

I'd sure hope Evans would have good games against the leagues worst defenses.
Thomas faced similar defenses (Buccs, Browns, and Falcons), and did better. Much better. (10 for 10, 129 yards, zero TD's Sunday, to answer your question) Yeah, no TD's because Brees was too busy running them in himself. Probably because he's so young and spry.

Don't misunderstand, I think Mike Evans is a fine receiver. He's not better than Thomas.

Shall we get back on to why the Saints defense is so bad this season? You know, the original thread? Perhaps you can formulate a better argument there.

[Kiwibrown]

They have players at every level and they still suck. 

[jrry32]

12 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

Steelers gave up 6 TD's to Patrick Mahomes and is atrocious this season. The only teams worse than the Steelers are the Chiefs, the Saints (who Evans did well against), and the Buccs. 

I'd sure hope Evans would have good games against the leagues worst defenses.
Thomas faced similar defenses (Buccs, Browns, and Falcons), and did better. Much better. (10 for 10, 129 yards, zero TD's Sunday, to answer your question) Yeah, no TD's because Brees was too busy running them in himself. Probably because he's so young and spry.

Don't misunderstand, I think Mike Evans is a fine receiver. He's not better than Thomas.

Shall we get back on to why the Saints defense is so bad this season? You know, the original thread? Perhaps you can formulate a better argument there.

Perhaps if we get back to the Saints defense, you won't have to defend why Evans has better numbers.

[Mid Iowa]

24 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Perhaps if we get back to the Saints defense, you won't have to defend why Evans has better numbers.

You're delusional.

Go ahead, cherry pick some stats that come close to attempting to prove your semi, halfway somewhat, but not really point.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, Mid Iowa said:

You're delusional.

Go ahead, cherry pick some stats that come close to attempting to prove your semi, halfway somewhat, but not really point.

Not a challenge. Over 3 games, Evans has 31 less yards in terms of volume, but his TD% and YPT are significantly better. 

[Mid Iowa]

Just now, jrry32 said:

Not a challenge. Over 3 games, Evans has 21 less yards in terms of volume, but his TD% and YPT are significantly better. 

I still don't buy that he's better.

Will you agree that they are different receivers?

For instance, Thomas has 19 first downs (tied for first in League). How many for Evans? They are tied at touchdowns. Thomas has more yards. 

Well never know how they'd compare with different QBs, so I guess we just won't know.

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, Mid Iowa said:

I still don't buy that he's better.

Will you agree that they are different receivers?

For instance, Thomas has 19 first downs (tied for first in League). How many for Evans? They are tied at touchdowns. Thomas has more yards. 

Well never know how they'd compare with different QBs, so I guess we just won't know.

Thomas has 19 first downs on 38 receptions. Evans has 17 first downs on 23 receptions. They are certainly different WRs. I'd take Mike Evans if given the choice. It's clear you'd take Thomas. It's not like there's a huge difference between the two imo. Although, it seems Saints fans disagree (because some are claiming him to be the best WR in the NFL).

[Soko]

18 minutes ago, Mid Iowa said:

Well never know how they'd compare with different QBs, so I guess we just won't know.

Sort of a cop out. 

One guy has a top 10 QB all-time and the other has had Winston/Fitzpatrick. Pretty safe to say there’s a sizable difference in quality of QB play (and offensive scheme), even if we can’t quantify exactly how much the difference is.

Factors in unless you’re of the belief that worse QB play=better for receivers.

[megatechpc]

13 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

Steelers gave up 6 TD's to Patrick Mahomes and is atrocious this season. The only teams worse than the Steelers are the Chiefs, the Saints (who Evans did well against), and the Buccs. 

I'd sure hope Evans would have good games against the leagues worst defenses.
Thomas faced similar defenses (Buccs, Browns, and Falcons), and did better. Much better. (10 for 10, 129 yards, zero TD's Sunday, to answer your question) Yeah, no TD's because Brees was too busy running them in himself. Probably because he's so young and spry.

Don't misunderstand, I think Mike Evans is a fine receiver. He's not better than Thomas.

Shall we get back on to why the Saints defense is so bad this season? You know, the original thread? Perhaps you can formulate a better argument there.

You gotta keep in mind that the Falcons defense the Saints saw on Sunday is a shell of itself without their best LB and safety.  Had Deion Jones and Keanu Neal been playing we would've seen a different result I believe.  The Falcons have been really lucky with injuries the past couple years but this season they won't be able to stop anybody due to injuries.  They were literally playing guys they got off the street a few days before the game.

Meanwhile the Saints defense is mostly whole yet Ryan had 375 yards and 5 TD's against them (Calvin Ridley with 3 TD's himself).  This is clearly not the NO defense from last year and even Lattimore has been getting torched.

[Mid Iowa]

10 hours ago, jrry32 said:

 Although, it seems Saints fans disagree (because some are claiming him to be the best WR in the NFL).

I'm not going to go that far. Time will tell. There's a lot of talent at the top, both Thomas and Evans are certainly up there, but neither are "the best" at this point.

Cheers!