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What happened to the Saints defense?

Elky

By Elky
in NFL General

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Mid Iowa

Mid Iowa

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, megatechpc said:

You gotta keep in mind that the Falcons defense the Saints saw on Sunday is a shell of itself without their best LB and safety.  Had Deion Jones and Keanu Neal been playing we would've seen a different result I believe.  The Falcons have been really lucky with injuries the past couple years but this season they won't be able to stop anybody due to injuries.  They were literally playing guys they got off the street a few days before the game.

Meanwhile the Saints defense is mostly whole yet Ryan had 375 yards and 5 TD's against them (Calvin Ridley with 3 TD's himself).  This is clearly not the NO defense from last year and even Lattimore has been getting torched.

No argument from me here. The Saints D can stop the run, and that's about it. After the front 4, the opposing offenses look like a sneeze into a wet kleenex.

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Mid Iowa

Mid Iowa

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10 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Sort of a cop out. 

One guy has a top 10 QB all-time and the other has had Winston/Fitzpatrick. Pretty safe to say there’s a sizable difference in quality of QB play (and offensive scheme), even if we can’t quantify exactly how much the difference is.

Factors in unless you’re of the belief that worse QB play=better for receivers.

I can't agree with the copout comment.
Who has Tom Brady put up near the top? If he's the GOAT, who's his hitch? Brees has always had favorites, yet spreads the ball around (9 different receivers last Sunday).

So are you telling me, out of the top 10-11 receivers, you're only going to pull the Brees card with Thomas?

1. Thomas/Brees - HOF QB
2. Evans/Fitzpatrick
3. Smith-Schuster/Roethlisberger - HOF QB <-- I challenge any of you to type this name combo without clicking back & fourth for spelling.
4. Thielen/Cousins
5. Cooks/Goff
6. Jones/Ryan
7. Jackson/Fitzpatrick
8. Hill/Mahomes
9. Kamara/Brees - HOF QB
10. Landry/Taylor

There's no consistent theme here. We've got brand new QBs, old HOF QBs, and middle of the road QBs. Is Jarvis Laundry in the top 10 because of the play of Tyrod Taylor? What if Taylor is a Saint, does he rocket to #1 and Thomas fall to #6?
Fitzpatrick has about 150 more yards than Brees, so how do we argue this? So I don't really think it's a cop out as much as it's an observation/looking at it with a different perspective.

Fitzpatrick and Brees both have 2 receivers in the top 10. Both are different types of QBs, and it's fair to argue all these receivers stats would likely look different with different QBs. I'd call it more of an obvious statement than a cop out.

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3 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

I can't agree with the copout comment.
Who has Tom Brady put up near the top? If he's the GOAT, who's his hitch? Brees has always had favorites, yet spreads the ball around (9 different receivers last Sunday).

So are you telling me, out of the top 10-11 receivers, you're only going to pull the Brees card with Thomas?

1. Thomas/Brees - HOF QB
2. Evans/Fitzpatrick
3. Smith-Schuster/Roethlisberger - HOF QB <-- I challenge any of you to type this name combo without clicking back & fourth for spelling.
4. Thielen/Cousins
5. Cooks/Goff
6. Jones/Ryan
7. Jackson/Fitzpatrick
8. Hill/Mahomes
9. Kamara/Brees - HOF QB
10. Landry/Taylor

There's no consistent theme here. We've got brand new QBs, old HOF QBs, and middle of the road QBs. Is Jarvis Laundry in the top 10 because of the play of Tyrod Taylor? What if Taylor is a Saint, does he rocket to #1 and Thomas fall to #6?
Fitzpatrick has about 150 more yards than Brees, so how do we argue this? So I don't really think it's a cop out as much as it's an observation/looking at it with a different perspective.

Fitzpatrick and Brees both have 2 receivers in the top 10. Both are different types of QBs, and it's fair to argue all these receivers stats would likely look different with different QBs. I'd call it more of an obvious statement than a cop out.

I called it a cop out because I don’t think it’s one of those situations where we throw our hands in the air and say “who knows how it would turn out, could go either way”. Brees is one of the most accurate QBs to have played and is a high volume passer. So it’s not really apples-to-apples if we throw someone like Ben in here, because even though he’ll be on the HOF ballot (not by my choice), he’s still not the QB Brees is. Nor does he play on the volumized offense. 

And yes, I think if we’re debating two players that are similar in ability/ranking and we’re also bringing up statistics, then it makes complete sense to bring their environment into the discussion. 

And I whole heartedly disagree with the idea that Brees spreads the ball around, at least anymore than most other QBs. Thomas and Kamara took 60% of the targets last week. Other than them, only Watson (5) and Ginn (3) had more than 2 catches. Last year’s numbers show Thomas/Kamara’s targets right in line % wise with most of the league, so they’re not exactly starving while Brees gets the ball to other players.

But I digress, I don’t want to get in the debate about Brees. Point is, if the debate is Thomas/Evans, they’re two players that are close enough to where you should look at their environment as well. Especially if you’re using stats.

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tyler735

tyler735

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4 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I called it a cop out because I don’t think it’s one of those situations where we throw our hands in the air and say “who knows how it would turn out, could go either way”. Brees is one of the most accurate QBs to have played and is a high volume passer. So it’s not really apples-to-apples if we throw someone like Brees in here, because even though he’ll be on the HOF ballot (not by my choice), he’s still not the QB Brees is. Nor does he play on the volumized offense. 

And yes, I think if we’re debating two players that are similar in ability/ranking and we’re also bringing up statistics, then it makes complete sense to bring their environment into the discussion. 

And I whole heartedly disagree with the idea that Brees spreads the ball around, at least anymore than most other QBs. Thomas and Kamara took 60% of the targets last week. Other than them, only Watson (5) and Ginn (3) had more than 2 catches. Last year’s numbers show Thomas/Kamara’s targets right in line % wise with most of the league, so they’re not exactly starving while Brees gets the ball to other players.

But I digress, I don’t want to get in the debate about Brees. Point is, if the debate is Thomas/Evans, they’re two players that are close enough to where you should look at their environment as well. Especially if you’re using stats.

What?

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tyler735

tyler735

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I don’t like Big Ben as a HOFer.

"if we throw someone like Brees in here, because even though he’ll be on the HOF ballot (not by my choice), he’s still not the QB Brees is. Nor does he play on the volumized offense." 

Oh I see misread it the first time and thought you didn't think Brees was going to be a HOF lol

 

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9 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

"if we throw someone like Brees in here, because even though he’ll be on the HOF ballot (not by my choice), he’s still not the QB Brees is. Nor does he play on the volumized offense." 

Oh I see misread it the first time and thought you didn't think Brees was going to be a HOF lol

 

I typo’d, that was supposed to say Ben. Whoops!

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