For those who blame the coaching staff...

[buddy_z34]

Dak doesnt have time?? Hes amongst the tops in terms of time to throw. Linehan doesnt call deep routes, why? Im not sure why. But to say he doesnt have time is false.

[quiller]

3 hours ago, buddy_z34 said:

Dak doesnt have time?? Hes amongst the tops in terms of time to throw. Linehan doesnt call deep routes, why? Im not sure why. But to say he doesnt have time is false.

Ah. That stat is time from snap to time of throw that has nothing to do with the time he has in the pocket  tI e he gets the snap pressured out of the pocket time stops when he throws the ball not when he’s forced out of the pocket.  Gets sacked ?  Not counted in the stat.  That stat is only good for seeing who is throwing the ball quickly against who is holding it waiting for routes to get open the lower the time the harder the QB is to sack and the more the QB is hitting quick developing routes like slants the longer the time the longer the QB is holding the ball waiting for a route to open up or rolling out scrambling should his receivers not be getting open up quickly enough or facing pressure

yes  will obviously I have no inside on what plays are being called or why.  I was only offering another reason no deep routes might being called a reason that is quite common especially against teams that blitz all the time 

I would also like to add stats are nice but by themselves mean nothing you need to watch film to get a clear picture to go with any stat. Think back to Romo sitting back for what seemed like ever waiting to throw or a Fran Tarkington scrambling around for ever both will have a high time tell throw   Basically I used eye test to say Dak hardly had time in pocket to throw - that and he was hit 10 times and pressured I think 5 more times while Wilson was hit only 3 times and pressured 4 times.   I am not sure about the number of pressures but the hits were what was reported 

[matt79511]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/27/17908676/dallas-cowboys-offense-dak-prescott-jason-garrett-jerry-jones

Quote

The lack of ingenuity in the Cowboys’ current playbook is stupefying. Against Seattle, Prescott threw 34 passes. A wide receiver went in motion on just three of those plays (two of which were completions to Cole Beasley, and at 18 and 16 yards respectively, they were the Cowboys’ longest passes of the game). Dallas used a receiver stack once—sort of. Near the goal line, Swaim lined up somewhat near a receiver and half-heartedly tried to clear out the defensive back. The Seahawks thwarted that immediately.

But it's definitely just execution. We should totally expect our 3rd string WRs to beat NFL caliber defensive backs running 4 verts/comebacks in 2x2 sets on 3rd and 9. They'll never see it coming!

[D82]

4 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/27/17908676/dallas-cowboys-offense-dak-prescott-jason-garrett-jerry-jones

But it's definitely just execution. We should totally expect our 3rd string WRs to beat NFL caliber defensive backs running 4 verts/comebacks in 2x2 sets on 3rd and 9. They'll never see it coming!

Linehan is a mastermind. 

[matt79511]

6 minutes ago, D82 said:

Linehan is a mastermind. 

The only game I can EVER remember us using receiver stacks on a consistent basis was against KC last year- which just so happens to have been our best offensive performance in what feels like an eternity. Dez, T-Will and Beasley were getting separation at will with natural picks and rubs and whatnot. Now our pass catchers are our primary scapegoat.

[D82]

11 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

The only game I can EVER remember us using receiver stacks on a consistent basis was against KC last year- which just so happens to have been our best offensive performance in what feels like an eternity. Dez, T-Will and Beasley were getting separation at will with natural picks and rubs and whatnot. Now our pass catchers are our primary scapegoat.

It's almost like they find something that works...and then never want to use it again. I don't get it. 

[Danger]

The coaching staff needs to go, and if you are in a position to land a potential franchise QB, Dak also needs to go, but that's a very big if.

The O-Line, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it'll get better if/when Frederick comes back, but none of them are playing as well as you all anticipated. 

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, matt79511 said:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/27/17908676/dallas-cowboys-offense-dak-prescott-jason-garrett-jerry-jones

But it's definitely just execution. We should totally expect our 3rd string WRs to beat NFL caliber defensive backs running 4 verts/comebacks in 2x2 sets on 3rd and 9. They'll never see it coming!

Did you watch the video yet? The vast majority of plays would have worked with player execution. 

 

Im not attempting to suggest that SL is a great play caller. Im saying that articles like these are useless if you dont watch the film and see that the play calling that did happen wasnt bad. It wasnt great, but is was absolutely more than enough to beat the Seahawk. And probably beat them by a TD or 2. 

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, D82 said:

1 hour ago, matt79511 said:

The only game I can EVER remember us using receiver stacks on a consistent basis was against KC last year- which just so happens to have been our best offensive performance in what feels like an eternity. Dez, T-Will and Beasley were getting separation at will with natural picks and rubs and whatnot. Now our pass catchers are our primary scapegoat.

It's almost like they find something that works...and then never want to use it again. I don't get it. 

I really cant take you serious if you dont see for yourself that a lot of the play calls were good enough. Scapegoating Linehan for the Seahawks game is dumb. He did an "okay" job. He isnt a mastermind, but his playcalling really isnt the reason we lost that game. 

[resilient part 2]

6 hours ago, quiller said:

Ah. That stat is time from snap to time of throw that has nothing to do with the time he has in the pocket  tI e he gets the snap pressured out of the pocket time stops when he throws the ball not when he’s forced out of the pocket.  Gets sacked ?  Not counted in the stat.  That stat is only good for seeing who is throwing the ball quickly against who is holding it waiting for routes to get open the lower the time the harder the QB is to sack and the more the QB is hitting quick developing routes like slants the longer the time the longer the QB is holding the ball waiting for a route to open up or rolling out scrambling should his receivers not be getting open up quickly enough or facing pressure

yes  will obviously I have no inside on what plays are being called or why.  I was only offering another reason no deep routes might being called a reason that is quite common especially against teams that blitz all the time 

I would also like to add stats are nice but by themselves mean nothing you need to watch film to get a clear picture to go with any stat. Think back to Romo sitting back for what seemed like ever waiting to throw or a Fran Tarkington scrambling around for ever both will have a high time tell throw   Basically I used eye test to say Dak hardly had time in pocket to throw - that and he was hit 10 times and pressured I think 5 more times while Wilson was hit only 3 times and pressured 4 times.   I am not sure about the number of pressures but the hits were what was reported 

agree.

[resilient part 2]

41 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I really cant take you serious if you dont see for yourself that a lot of the play calls were good enough. Scapegoating Linehan for the Seahawks game is dumb. He did an "okay" job. He isnt a mastermind, but his playcalling really isnt the reason we lost that game. 

not disagreeing with any of your assessments, but can better play-calling lead to easier executions? ie, more confusion for the defense leads to much bigger openings etc..

[matt79511]

21 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Did you watch the video yet? The vast majority of plays would have worked with player execution. 

 

Im not attempting to suggest that SL is a great play caller. Im saying that articles like these are useless if you dont watch the film and see that the play calling that did happen wasnt bad. It wasnt great, but is was absolutely more than enough to beat the Seahawk. And probably beat them by a TD or 2. 

No, I haven't watched it and I most likely won't. For that I apologize. 3 hours of that game was enough, I'm not enough of a masochist to endure another 2.

I find it remarkably hard to believe that a talent void on offense can be the sole reason we're setting franchise offensive futility records, because that would imply that this is the least talented offense in franchise history. If the problem is not talent but execution and awareness and overall football IQ... eventually the coaching staff is held accountable for those things, at least for 31/32 teams in the league.

We lost 72-6 (!!!) in the second halves of that three game losing streak last November- something that can't be said of the 60's expansion team nor the transition years between Landry and Johnson nor the 5-11 Campo years. It's hard to see what's changed in the last 10 months besides a defense that's not collapsing as hard in the 2H (and a couple receivers getting sh*t-canned because they questioned the playcalling). Forgive me for not buying that an offense that prefers 8 yard isolated comeback routes to play action and mesh concepts and bunch formations is beyond reproach.

Mays is a smart dude. I'll allow him to watch the tape for me. What he's saying isn't groupthink, it's all stuff that's apparent.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, matt79511 said:

No, I haven't watched it and I most likely won't. For that I apologize. 3 hours of that game was enough, I'm not enough of a masochist to endure another 2.

I find it remarkably hard to believe that a talent void on offense can be the sole reason we're setting franchise offensive futility records, because that would imply that this is the least talented offense in franchise history. If the problem is not talent but execution and awareness and overall football IQ... eventually the coaching staff is held accountable for those things, at least for 31/32 teams in the league.

We lost 72-6 (!!!) in the second halves of that three game losing streak last November- something that can't be said of the 60's expansion team nor the transition years between Landry and Johnson nor the 5-11 Campo years. It's hard to see what's changed in the last 10 months besides a defense that's not collapsing as hard in the 2H (and a couple receivers getting sh*t-canned because they questioned the playcalling). Forgive me for not buying that an offense that prefers 8 yard isolated comeback routes to play action and mesh concepts and bunch formations is beyond reproach.

Mays is a smart dude. I'll allow him to watch the tape for me. What he's saying isn't groupthink, it's all stuff that's apparent.

If you just watch the first hour you will get the point. And its eye opening.  Watch it for yourself and see if you still feel that way. 

[matt79511]

Just now, resilient part 2 said:

not disagreeing with any of your assessments, but can better play-calling lead to easier executions? ie, more confusion for the defense leads to much bigger openings etc..

Precisely. This offense has ZERO margin for error.

[DaBoys]

26 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I really cant take you serious if you dont see for yourself that a lot of the play calls were good enough. Scapegoating Linehan for the Seahawks game is dumb. He did an "okay" job. He isnt a mastermind, but his playcalling really isnt the reason we lost that game. 

What about last years Seahawks game? 1st and goal from the 5. 

 

 

And guys? Maybe just MAYBE.... they are both lacking?

Instead of bickering over which is the root, accept that they both may be bad at present.

I see Zeke trying his hardest to not be a loser and making sloppy errors usually during a huge play(alot like a young Dez), I see a line that is hurting in several different ways and are probably closer to top 15 rather top 5 at the moment, I see Prescott throwing ducks, and when he does make a nice throw I see our no name WRs and TEs earning their moniker.

 

I see that our play calling is, at the very least, uncomplex. We've been talking about the motion thing for years wondering why they never tried getting Dez on the move. 3 motion plays the whole game when passing? Would it not be beneficial to a young QB to make the defense move and know definitively if they are man or zone? Tony Romo can tell by the original lineup, but Dak may need time. Why not make the defense move so the whole stadium knows? Arm chair coaching is easy, but that just seems like a no brainer. Run with Dak more. Try to protect him within the scheme like you did his rookie year when you were scared. Don't try to turn him into Stafford or Romo.  Play to his strengths. Play to the rosters' strength. It's unforgivable that Zeke hasn't hit 20 carries this season. His stat line on 16 carries is nuts. Feed ZEKE the ball. Not Dak and the misfits. 

The play calling has sucked for years. The straight forward scheme can work if your players are better. That's why we were good until we got an injury. Then we have 2nd string/simple scheme.

 

Good players can execute a simple scheme. A good scheme can be executed by simple players. Neither are making up for the other right now. No reason to argue the tallest midget.