NBA GDT | 18'-19 | I Love Mod Edits

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Except you are.  In 2017, they were 11th in PPG and 14th in FG%.  But because they were 29th in 3P%, they're not a good scoring team.  Golden State put this unrealistic expectation in people's head.  They were a good offensive team last year, let's not sugarcoat it.  You can be a good offensive team, and not be a great shooting team.  Defensively, they were 25th in opponents PPG but 10th in opponents FG%.  In terms of net PPG, they were 21st.  Their defensive issues had more to do with the fact that they played with such high pace.  They were an average defensive team, not great but not awful either.  Again, we're talking about 2 damn games.  Against Portland and Houston nonetheless.  Both playoff teams.  Give this team some time before you come here making concrete statements.

And the Lakers under Walton have feasted on beating poor teams while sucking arse against average to good competition. I think Walton is like 28-73 as the Lakers coach against teams with a .500 record or better. The Lakers were 21st in net PPG and you're trying to suggest that they'll be a good defensive team this year? I'll give the Lakers some time, I don't care either way. I'm just being realistic and Lakers fans get upset about it. There's no guarantee you will sign another elite player to pair with LeBron or win a title during his tenure with the team. Hell at this point the odds of either one of those things happening are stacked against you. 

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

So in 3 years as the GM he has missed the playoffs twice, acquired a few decent young players, and has cleared some cap space. He has also built one of the worst rosters around LeBron that he has ever had in his career. 

You're saying Kawhi will be different, but why? Kawhi is in a much better position in Toronto than George is in with the Thunder. Randle is solid but Magic let him walk and Russell is a bust, especially considering his draft position. Unless you consider a 14 ppg on a 40% clip a good stat line for a former #2 overall pick, but whatever makes you feel better I guess. Brandon Ingram definitely has some potential but he's far from a great player. He improved from year one to year two but we'll see what happens, he was an average scorer for a meh team in year two that didn't really have any other options offensively. In the very limited sample size this year he hasn't looked much better than last season. 

First off, Magic Johnson is President of Basketball Operations.  Former agent, Rob Pelinka, is the Lakers' GM.  Secondly, Magic Johnson was hired in February of 2017, so he's been POBO for a year and a half.  The fact that you can't be bothered to get some basic facts out scares me.  And saying that he's acquired a few decent young players and clears some cap space is selling it short, and you know that.

First off, when he was hired he had Mozgov's 3 years, $48M left on his deal and managed to dump that contract using no long-term assets.  He used a "draft bust" who he had no intention of retaining, cleared the max cap space AND managed to get a draft pick in return.  That's a hell of a deal.  In what could have been a gamble that backfired, he dealt LNJ and Jordan Clarkson to the Cavaliers creating the necessary cap space for a second max contract.  How many teams manage to create two max FA slots without sacrificing any of their long-term players?  I can't think of one.  Worst rosters?  I'm sure you missed most of the Cleveland LeBron's when he was there the first time.  When you're surrounded by guys like Larry Hughes or Zydrunas Ilgauskas, you're not a very good roster.  And outside of Miami, the only real talent he's played with has been Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love.  His rosters post-Kyrie has been aggressively mediocre.

I very much disagree about Kawhi being in a better position than George.  Putting aside the fact that personality differences between the two, it's easier to re-sign when you're playing with Russell Westbrook than it is Kyle Lowry or DeMar DeRozan.  The only thing that Toronto really offers outside of money is an easier path to the NBA Finals.  There's a reason why Toronto isn't considered a big FA destination.  I'm not saying he can't re-sign with Toronto, I'm just saying it's anything but a foregone conclusion.  IMO, he's going to end up in Los Angeles one way or the other.

They let Julius Randle walk as a gesture of good will because they had no intention of signing him to a long-term contract.  Add on the fact that long-term they preferred Kyle Kuzma, and there's a reason why they chose Kuzma over Randle.  And it wasn't because Randle was bad.  But I'll bite on the D'Angelo Russell being a "bust" thing.  First off, Russell wasn't even his draft pick.  Russell was inherited from the Jim Buss regime.  But he recognized that he wasn't a long-term piece and used him to move Mozgov's albatross contract.  Magic was widely blasted for this deal, and it turned into a HUGE steal for the Lakers.  And it's the development we've seen from Brandon Ingram from Year 1 to Year 2.

[FinneasGage]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

First off, Magic Johnson

 

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

First off, when

 

hey bro you lied 

[NYRaider]

28 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

First off, Magic Johnson is President of Basketball Operations.  Former agent, Rob Pelinka, is the Lakers' GM.  Secondly, Magic Johnson was hired in February of 2017, so he's been POBO for a year and a half.  The fact that you can't be bothered to get some basic facts out scares me.  And saying that he's acquired a few decent young players and clears some cap space is selling it short, and you know that.

First off, when he was hired he had Mozgov's 3 years, $48M left on his deal and managed to dump that contract using no long-term assets.  He used a "draft bust" who he had no intention of retaining, cleared the max cap space AND managed to get a draft pick in return.  That's a hell of a deal.  In what could have been a gamble that backfired, he dealt LNJ and Jordan Clarkson to the Cavaliers creating the necessary cap space for a second max contract.  How many teams manage to create two max FA slots without sacrificing any of their long-term players?  I can't think of one.  Worst rosters?  I'm sure you missed most of the Cleveland LeBron's when he was there the first time.  When you're surrounded by guys like Larry Hughes or Zydrunas Ilgauskas, you're not a very good roster.  And outside of Miami, the only real talent he's played with has been Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love.  His rosters post-Kyrie has been aggressively mediocre.

I very much disagree about Kawhi being in a better position than George.  Putting aside the fact that personality differences between the two, it's easier to re-sign when you're playing with Russell Westbrook than it is Kyle Lowry or DeMar DeRozan.  The only thing that Toronto really offers outside of money is an easier path to the NBA Finals.  There's a reason why Toronto isn't considered a big FA destination.  I'm not saying he can't re-sign with Toronto, I'm just saying it's anything but a foregone conclusion.  IMO, he's going to end up in Los Angeles one way or the other.

They let Julius Randle walk as a gesture of good will because they had no intention of signing him to a long-term contract.  Add on the fact that long-term they preferred Kyle Kuzma, and there's a reason why they chose Kuzma over Randle.  And it wasn't because Randle was bad.  But I'll bite on the D'Angelo Russell being a "bust" thing.  First off, Russell wasn't even his draft pick.  Russell was inherited from the Jim Buss regime.  But he recognized that he wasn't a long-term piece and used him to move Mozgov's albatross contract.  Magic was widely blasted for this deal, and it turned into a HUGE steal for the Lakers.  And it's the development we've seen from Brandon Ingram from Year 1 to Year 2.

2

First off, I can't believe you can't do some basic research to find that Kawhi wanted out of San Antonio because he had a beef with the organization, that scares me. That's awesome that Magic was able to trade away Mosgov's contract and clear a second max contract space, was he able to use it though? He has definitely done an excellent job of clearing up cap space and did an excellent job of filling that cap space this year with guys like Rondo, Stephenson, and McGee. What real young talent do the Lakers have? Ingram is solid and has some potential, Kuzma is an average scorer that doesn't do anything else well, Hart is a decent role player, and Ball looks like a big-time bust while also being a major distraction for the organization. 

Toronto was the #1 seed in the Eastern Conference last year and got better by adding Kawhi/Green to replace DeRozan, again, did you not just see them smack Boston the other night? The Raptors have also been a top 3 seed in the East for the past three years. I'd rather play with Kyle Lowry in the Eastern Conference than Russell Westbrook in the Western Conference, again, did you not see the Thunder get smacked by the Jazz in the first round last year? The Raptors team is constructed to get to the Finals this year and to be one of the elite defensive teams in the league. You say Toronto isn't an FA destination but the Lakers have gone what? 40 years since their last big FA acquisition? How is that a great FA destination? Not to mention there were rumblings about Kawhi wanting to play in NY with Kyrie Irving and wanting to play for the Clippers in their new stadium in Inglewood. Kawhi to the Lakers is hypothetical as of now and nowhere near guaranteed. 

They let Randle walk and traded away Russell but I thought they were able to clear cap space without letting go of any of their long-term players? Or were Russell and Randle not long-term players just because you let them go? I don't really see the rationale of keeping Kuzma over Randle from a pure basketball standpoint, but it makes sense when salary comes into play. To me, Randle is a much better player and Kuzma is one of the most overrated players in the league. Kuzma and Hart look like future role players, not sure it was a huge steal for the Lakers, the jury is still out. Guys that can score at an average clip while not doing much else aren't that valuable in today's game, especially in the playoffs. Kuzma was getting picked on and toasted by the Rockets all night yesterday, that's what will happen in the playoffs as well. I like Ingram but I just don't ever see him developing into anything more than like a 16-18 ppg guy that is a below average 3 point shooter and average defender. 

[showtime]

It's too soon to call the Lakers young talent bust or role players.  Ball, Kuzma and Hart are just now starting their second season.  Also, using cap space on Rondo, Stephenson and McGee isn't a bad thing since those guys are on one year deals.  All of the players I named in this post can also be used as trade bait as well if necessary in the future.  This upcoming off-season is going to have one of the best free agent pools in the history of the league.  There's a lot of potential there for the Lakers via free agency and trade.  That's the time the Lakers potentially add a second superstar player and they can mold the roster to fit LeBron + other superstar, if that happens.

You asked what Magic and Jeanie have done... What the hell haven't they done.  This franchise was dead in the water with the worst owner in all of sports before those two took the reigns and gave this organization hope again.

[Leader]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

The Raptors look to be the best team in the East, they were the #1 seed in the East last year and got better, so... Defensively their team is built to give the Warriors trouble, they have a lot of shooting, and two guys that can get buckets in clutch situations. They're probably one of only three teams that might have a chance to beat GS in a 7 game series along with Boston and Houston.

I'll admit to not having followed NBA action real closely for a few years - so I'm not up on the details of alot of teams - but I wonder how a healthy BOS will stack up with TOR. Outside of Leonard - I've no interest in TOR - so I dont know their roster at all - but I think their #1 in the East last year was aided by the Division being relatively weak and BOS suffering from injuries. We'll see what the 2018/2019 season brings. 

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

First off, I can't believe you can't do some basic research to find that Kawhi wanted out of San Antonio because he had a beef with the organization, that scares me. That's awesome that Magic was able to trade away Mosgov's contract and clear a second max contract space, was he able to use it though? He has definitely done an excellent job of clearing up cap space and did an excellent job of filling that cap space this year with guys like Rondo, Stephenson, and McGee. What real young talent do the Lakers have? Ingram is solid and has some potential, Kuzma is an average scorer that doesn't do anything else well, Hart is a decent role player, and Ball looks like a big-time bust while also being a major distraction for the organization. 

I'm abundantly aware of the situation regarding Kawhi.  You made the point that Kawhi wasn't going to turn down more guaranteed money to go to the Lakers.  I made the point that if that was the case, why did San Antonio feel the pressure to deal him?  Why would it be the case with Toronto but not San Antonio?  That's what I'm getting at.

And who cares if they used it or not, it's not like they wasted it.  This past offseason, who was available for it?  With the exception of LeBron James, the biggest names to switch teams this past offseason DeAndre Jordan, Jabari Parker, and Trevor Ariza.  That's a god awful list of players to move.  I'd rather "punt" my cap space into next year than sign someone to some long-term, bloated contract.  Even if you don't like the signings of Lance Stephenson or Michael Beasley, they're essentially punting that cap space to next year.

What real young talent?  Brandon Ingram is a budding star.  He averaged 16/5/4 last year on 47% shooting.  Oh, and he was only 20 years old.  He was one of the youngest players in the league when he drafted, and the jump he showed from his rookie to sophomore year bodes well for his future.  Kuzma is an average scorer?  He's 5th in Lakers' history for points scored as a rookie.  But he's just an average scorer?  He's the first rookie to score at least 1000 points, grab 400 rebounds, and make 130 3PT in a season.  Calling Josh Hart a decent role player seems soft at best, but I'd give you the benefit of the doubt given that he's got limited burn so far.  But he'll be the starting SG next to LeBron sooner rather than later.  He's legit.  Put this into perspective, the only 1st round picks last year that have a higher WS/48 who have played in at least 1500 minutes are Jayson Tatum (.139).  Josh Hart's WS/48 is .108.  If you expand that list to anyone whose got at least 1000 minutes played, that includes Jayson Tatum, Bam Adebayo (.146), John Collins (.145), and Jarrett Allen (.108).  The only rookies from last year's class who had a higher VORP?  Donovan Mitchell, Jayson Tatum, John Collins, Lonzo Ball, Jordan Bell, OG Anunoby, and Bam Adebayo.  Of that list, the only ones who didn't accumulate at least 1000 minutes played was Jordan Bell.  But yeah, he's average.  Lulz about Lonzo Ball being a big time-bust.  Or even about him being a major distraction.  Neither of those are remotely true.

Player A: 34 MPG, 10.2 PPG, 36% FG%, 31% 3P%, 6.9 RPG, 7.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 2.6 TOPG, .444 TS%, 17.4% USG%, 1.7 VORP
Player B: 34 MPG, 11.7 PPG, 39% FG%, 27% 3P%, 5.4 RPG, 7.7 APG, 1.9 SPG, 3.2 TOPG, .471 TS%, 20.4% USG%, 2.5 VORP

Player A is Lonzo Ball.  Player B is Jason Kidd.  I'm guessing you weren't ready to call Jason Kidd a bust after his rookie year.  No, in fact I'd guarantee it.  He couldn't shoot.  But aside from that, he was an incredibly impactful player.

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Toronto was the #1 seed in the Eastern Conference last year and got better by adding Kawhi/Green to replace DeRozan, again, did you not just see them smack Boston the other night? The Raptors have also been a top 3 seed in the East for the past three years. I'd rather play with Kyle Lowry in the Eastern Conference than Russell Westbrook in the Western Conference, again, did you not see the Thunder get smacked by the Jazz in the first round last year? The Raptors team is constructed to get to the Finals this year and to be one of the elite defensive teams in the league. You say Toronto isn't an FA destination but the Lakers have gone what? 40 years since their last big FA acquisition? How is that a great FA destination? Not to mention there were rumblings about Kawhi wanting to play in NY with Kyrie Irving and wanting to play for the Clippers in their new stadium in Inglewood. Kawhi to the Lakers is hypothetical as of now and nowhere near guaranteed. 

And we saw how that fared in the playoffs.  It took them 6 games to beat Washington before getting swept by the Cleveland LeBron's.  Meanwhile, the Celtics made it to the Eastern Conference Finals without Kyrie Irving or Gordon Hayward.  But yeah, the Raptors are clearly the better team.  And I could care less about a single H2H matchup.  Boston is the better team, and it's crazy to me that you could think otherwise.  Boston is probably one of the few teams who could make things interesting with Golden State.  Toronto isn't that team until Kyle Lowry shows up in the playoffs.  The only reason you'd prefer Lowry to Westbrook is because of the conference.  The East is a joke.  It's essentially a 3-team conference (no offense to Giannis) with Boston, Toronto, and Philadelphia.  The rest is a joke.  If you're halfway decent, you're going to make the playoffs.  Case in point, Toronto.  They had a 77% win rate against the Eastern Conference.  They had a 63% win rate against the West.  Even better, look at their record against sub-.500 teams (35-2) and teams with .500+ records (24-21).  They're doing exactly what they're supposed to do.  They're beating bad teams.  The only Western Conference team who won less games than the Raptors against teams with records of .500+ was San Antonio who won 21 games.  That's a byproduct of the joke of a conference we call the East.  If the Raptors get to the NBA Finals, it's because the joke of a conference they're in.  Not because they faced some daunting obstacle.

40 years?  They signed Shaq in the summer of '96, and they signed LeBron James in the summer of '18.  That's 22 years in between major FA signings.  And as I've mentioned, the Lakers have had cap space for a max contract FOUR times in that 22 years.  What FA has Toronto signed in the last 4 decades?  I legitimately don't know of a single one.  Their best players have been acquired via the draft, i.e. Vince Carter, Chris Bosh, and DeMar DeRozan.  The only one who wasn't was Kyle Lowry.  In the 23 years the Raptors have been a franchise, I believe their biggest FA signing was Jorge Garbajosa.  I might be wrong about that, but a quick glance was that was their most successful franchise.

Nowhere did I say that the Lakers were a guaranteed to sign Kawhi.  I'm just merely saying that the Lakers as a FA destination are exponentially more attractive then the Raptors.  And I'm not sure how you could disagree.

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

They let Randle walk and traded away Russell but I thought they were able to clear cap space without letting go of any of their long-term players? Or were Russell and Randle not long-term players just because you let them go? I don't really see the rationale of keeping Kuzma over Randle from a pure basketball standpoint, but it makes sense when salary comes into play. To me, Randle is a much better player and Kuzma is one of the most overrated players in the league. Kuzma and Hart look like future role players, not sure it was a huge steal for the Lakers, the jury is still out. Guys that can score at an average clip while not doing much else aren't that valuable in today's game, especially in the playoffs. Kuzma was getting picked on and toasted by the Rockets all night yesterday, that's what will happen in the playoffs as well. I like Ingram but I just don't ever see him developing into anything more than like a 16-18 ppg guy that is a below average 3 point shooter and average defender. 

You just got done telling me that D'Angelo Russell was a bust, yet you're chastising Magic for trading him?  That doesn't make any sense.  They didn't trade any pieces they felt were detrimental to long-term success, managed to clear cap space for a max contract or two, and put the franchise in a significantly better place than they were just 12 months prior.  As long as Lonzo Ball was on the roster, D'Angelo Russell's fit was questionable at best.  He's a high usage guard who needed the ball in his hands to be effective.  Lonzo isn't a good enough shooter to play off-ball, and even then you want the ball in Lonzo's hands.  For that reason alone, Russell was a poor fit next to Lonzo.  Add on the repeated character concerns with Russell, and Russell was the easy choice to ship away.  As for Randle, he was a damn good player his last season.  He was an average player in his 3rd year and a mediocre player his first two seasons, although he did have his high points in his first two seasons.  The problem was that they had to commit to him long-term, and if they did that then they'd forfeit their second max slot.  The Lakers weren't willing to do that.  And if you don't understand the rationale of keeping Kuzma over Randle, you must have missed the transition the NBA has changed to.  Kuzma is your prototypical 4 in today's NBA.  If Randle can consistently shoot with some range, he might be your NBA 5.  But if he can't, he's just another big whose going to clog the paint.  I like Randle, but based on what Luke wants to do and how the NBA is going, Kuzma is the more valuable of the two players.  And I'd consider myself a Randle fan too.  Again, Ingram averaged 16 PPG on 47% shooting from the field and 39% from beyond the arc.  Oh, and he was just 20 years old. He's going to get better.  I'll go ahead and revisit this one after the season.

[kyle21121]

Quit living in the past you sound like an entitled ***. 50+ wins each of the last 5 years, division titles, #1 seed and a Conference finals appearance for Toronto. Has L.A. done any of that recently? Garbo the biggest FA signing in franchise history? FOH but okay. I like the blind stat test with Ball and Kidd I did the same with Bargnani and Dirk after year one they were eerily similar as well. 

[kyle21121]

Also if you say Boston is the one team who could challenge GS then say if Toronto beats them and makes the finals it’s because the conference is a joke that makes no sense. Toronto and Boston are both top 4 teams in the NBA. Whoever wins that series is deserving even if it is Boston that wins. GS still may be leaps and bounds better than anyone though.

Kawhi for Demar swaps instantly transforms this team with the best bench in the NBA and now the best player in the conference.

If things end up the same and  I’m wrong I’ll cross that bridge when it comes. I never fully believed in Demar but I had to try and believe in the team as a whole. Kawhi is night and day better. 

[champ11]

The Lakers have been failing upward for sure. They've made probably around 5 decisions that would cripple most franchises in the last 5 years. But obviously they are in LA and have an incredible history so they got LeBron. 

They compounded signing the best player in the league with bad veteran signings, which two games in already hilariously resulted in a fist fight. It's too good.

But the organization does deserve credit for drafting Kuzma and Hart, who both look like they will be nice players, and Luke Walton was a good hire. But yeah I mean I'm not sure their young core is even in the top 5 of the league, but I'd have to think about it. 

[Mossburg]

Hai bois

Does anyone play defense in 2018?

Edited October 22, 2018 by Mossburg

[showtime]

12 minutes ago, Mossburg said:

Hai bois

Does anyone play defense in 2018?

League hasn't been the same since Tony Allen retired.

[Mossburg]

Just now, showtime said:

League hasn't been the same since Tony Allen retired.

Ben Wallace is rolling in his.......Bentley?

[champ11]

19 minutes ago, Mossburg said:

Hai bois

Does anyone play defense in 2018?

THE DENVER NUGGETS 

[showtime]

I love Denver's announcers and their home court fans.  Great team to watch on league pass.