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2019 NFL Draft - Interior Defensive Line

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4 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

I mean, there's a significant difference in talent, IMO. But I think circumstances play a big role in your statement.

Quinnen obviously has higher upside but I’d argue for Davis as the safer prospect. I don’t particularly remember Quinnen last year, which i guess isn’t a huge detraction considering the heavy rotation Alabama. But Davis popped off the tape similarly to how Quinnen is now. I think the difference is slightly exaggerated due to recency bias, and the fact that they’re playing side-by-side and one is creating clearer disruption in the game than the other. What Davis has shown this year is his ability to occupy a less sexy but intergal part of a 3-4 defense, and that’s occupying blockers. 

The parallels in narrative on Davis last year and Quinnen are similar enough. I haven’t forgotten the pass rushing/interior disruption potential of Raekwon and nor will NFL scouts. We forget that some people said Davis flashed the potential to usurp the Big 2 (Bosa, Oliver). May not have been a popular opinion but that’s how the evaluation game goes.

Puttung it simply, it’s like comparing Gerald McCoy (Quinnen) to Calais Campbell (Raekwon). No one disputes that they’re both elite talents. Depending on the construction of your defense and what the return in trading down is? To use your example, I think I’d rather trade down from 5 and acquire more draft capital, and end up settling for Calais. 

If you’re looking for a pure 3-Tech with Suh/McCoy potential? Quinnen, sure. His tape is really great, but it is just one year (if anyone has tape/cut-ups from his freshman year that proves me wrong please send it my way). I prefer the versatility of Davis. Last year he’s a disruptive pass-rushing rotation piece, this year he’s a stout run-defender that opens up a lot for his fellow line mates.

The real question mark is Buggs. Statistically, he’s arguably the most impressive in the sack department. But is it a consensus that he’s the main beneficiary from the attention Davis and Quinnen draw? Is he a Jason Jones-type? What the hell is he.

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4 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Absolutely. He's the hottest name in college football right now in regards to draft buzz. Just when you think he can't get any better, he goes out and tops his performance. Whether they're accurate or not, the discussions of Quinnen over Oliver are picking up more steam every week. I've already seen two mocks today from people I respect, both of which have Ed Oliver falling below Williams.

I also think it's a bit of a "what have you done for me lately" type of situation. With Bosa being out for the year, he's not able to do anything that will recapture people's attention. And Oliver, being at Houston, isn't exactly playing in a number of primetime games.

So Quinnen has that advantage too, he's going to continue to be in the spotlight for the majority or the season's remainder. If he continues to put up even half the highlights he did against LSU each week, the conversation is only going to continue to escalate.

Depends. Perhaps from the perspective of trading up and giving away assets for Quinnen, sure. I think that's fair. But if you're on the clock at, say, pick 5, and Quinnen is staring you in the face, it would be awfully hard to turn that away, trade down, and opt for Davis instead. 

I mean, there's a significant difference in talent, IMO. But I think circumstances play a big role in your statement.

 

Yeah Quinnen has more than just an advantage of playing big time games against big time teams, he plays with big time talent.  Just think of the hype that would be around Ed Oliver and if he played on Alabama for three years.  Not to mention the production he would of had.  I do not think anyone expected Quinnen Williams to be this good based off what he showed last year.  He just looked like another big solid thick DE in their 3/4, not a possible superstar pass rushing NT/DT who at times cannot be blocked.  Helps to be put in pass rush situations as often as he is.

 

I feel kind of foolish putting Quinnen up so high in my 7 round mock but it is hard not to with playing like he has of late.  Still really would love to see what he does next year on Alabama with the hype around him and the book ends all gone in Davis and Buggs and probably Miller and Jennings on the outside as well.  Could he still be this good?  One will probably never know though....   And there is some risk to picking him that high with the small sample size of performance, with being that high of pick one will be expected to be an Pro Bowler consistently and an All Pro and be one of the league leaders in sacks.  Like we said before, at least some of these other DLs have done it at a big time level for three years now, not just a season.

But yes some teams are really going to get some steals at the DL position.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, One Punch Man said:

Quinnen obviously has higher upside but I’d argue for Davis as the safer prospect. I don’t particularly remember Quinnen last year, which i guess isn’t a huge detraction considering the heavy rotation Alabama. But Davis popped off the tape similarly to how Quinnen is now. I think the difference is slightly exaggerated due to recency bias, and the fact that they’re playing side-by-side and one is creating clearer disruption in the game than the other. What Davis has shown this year is his ability to occupy a less sexy but intergal part of a 3-4 defense, and that’s occupying blockers. 

The parallels in narrative on Davis last year and Quinnen are similar enough. I haven’t forgotten the pass rushing/interior disruption potential of Raekwon and nor will NFL scouts. We forget that some people said Davis flashed the potential to usurp the Big 2 (Bosa, Oliver). May not have been a popular opinion but that’s how the evaluation game goes.

Puttung it simply, it’s like comparing Gerald McCoy (Quinnen) to Calais Campbell (Raekwon). No one disputes that they’re both elite talents. Depending on the construction of your defense and what the return in trading down is? To use your example, I think I’d rather trade down from 5 and acquire more draft capital, and end up settling for Calais. 

If you’re looking for a pure 3-Tech with Suh/McCoy potential? Quinnen, sure. His tape is really great, but it is just one year (if anyone has tape/cut-ups from his freshman year that proves me wrong please send it my way). I prefer the versatility of Davis. Last year he’s a disruptive pass-rushing rotation piece, this year he’s a stout run-defender that opens up a lot for his fellow line mates.

The real question mark is Buggs. Statistically, he’s arguably the most impressive in the sack department. But is it a consensus that he’s the main beneficiary from the attention Davis and Quinnen draw? Is he a Jason Jones-type? What the hell is he.

I agree, I had Quinnen Williams rated last year but did not rate him at the top of that class.  He did splash and make some plays to make him a notable NFL prospect, but never though this guy will be an early entry candidate in 2019.  They needed a NT this year and that has really worked out well for them, not sure if he would have quite the same success at the 3/4 DE spot which is what he played the year before more often I thought.

 

I love Davis but he is not been as productive as I would have thought this year.  I agree though he is playing a key role and taking up blocks and allowing others to be successful.  That front seven on Alabama is playing great specially in the pass rush role of being up by so many points so often.  Davis is a big time talent and some team will get him at potentially a great value if people think his lack of production this year has to do with a lack of talent.  With his athletic ability and flat out size and arm length I feel he has as much upside as any DL in the up coming draft.  The guy is flat out massive and strong not to mention quick.

 

You bring up Suh, well Suh his senior year at Nebraska was part of a big time turnaround for that school, a very good defense and he had 20 TFLs, 12 sacks and 85 Total Tackles.  Much less the year before that as a JR had 76 tackles, 16 TFLs and 7.5 sacks and 2 INTs.  The only thing negative about Williams right now is the sample size is crazy low for a guy who is a top 5 pick possibly.  

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

I agree, I had Quinnen Williams rated last year but did not rate him at the top of that class.  He did splash and make some plays to make him a notable NFL prospect, but never though this guy will be an early entry candidate in 2019.  They needed a NT this year and that has really worked out well for them, not sure if he would have quite the same success at the 3/4 DE spot which is what he played the year before more often I thought.

 

I love Davis but he is not been as productive as I would have thought this year.  I agree though he is playing a key role and taking up blocks and allowing others to be successful.  That front seven on Alabama is playing great specially in the pass rush role of being up by so many points so often.  Davis is a big time talent and some team will get him at potentially a great value if people think his lack of production this year has to do with a lack of talent.  With his athletic ability and flat out size and arm length I feel he has as much upside as any DL in the up coming draft.  The guy is flat out massive and strong not to mention quick.

 

You bring up Suh, well Suh his senior year at Nebraska was part of a big time turnaround for that school, a very good defense and he had 20 TFLs, 12 sacks and 85 Total Tackles.  Much less the year before that as a JR had 76 tackles, 16 TFLs and 7.5 sacks and 2 INTs.  The only thing negative about Williams right now is the sample size is crazy low for a guy who is a top 5 pick possibly.  

That's what so strange about Quinnen. He doesn't play like a traditional NT in a 3-4. I watched a few cut ups and he doesn't stack blocks and react to run as much as I expected. He's so aggressive and I get why. He's strong and technical, he disengages blockers with ease. His get off is pretty special. It's almost like Saban is letting him be a Jay Ratliff-type and Quinnen is flourishing. He collapses the pocket and breaks the line easily. If I'm nitpicking, there are a few occasions where his aggressiveness gets the best of him and the running back slips past him. I think that comes with more playing time and a feel for opposing offenses, developing plays. I also can't help but wonder how Raekwon would look in that role. What are the specific role designations? I always see this brought up when people talk about Oliver's lack of production in the sack department. What is the defense asking out of these two respective players.

This is the first time in years that all 3 of Bama's down-lineman are producing fairly well (on the stat sheet--they're always loaded at every position talent-wise). Davis is the odd man out. I'll probably get around to a more in-depth analysis on Raekwon and his lack of production, the role he's playing in the front 7 now. I just like the two-sides I've seen from Raekwon. He can play the run (this year). He can rush the passer (last year). If Quinnen comes back and produces close to what he's done so far? Yeah he's no doubt a top-2 pick. But this year? I can't blame someone else for taking that risk. But I wouldn't. Not when other comparable, proven talents are available. This really is the year to snag yourself an interior defensive lineman. 

Edited by One Punch Man

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23 minutes ago, One Punch Man said:

That's what so strange about Quinnen. He doesn't play like a traditional NT in a 3-4. I watched a few cut ups and he doesn't stack blocks and react to run as much as I expected. He's so aggressive and I get why. He's strong and technical, he disengages blockers with ease. His get off is pretty special. It's almost like Saban is letting him be a Jay Ratliff-type and Quinnen is flourishing. He collapses the pocket and breaks the line easily. If I'm nitpicking, there are a few occasions where his aggressiveness gets the best of him and the running back slips past him. I think that comes with more playing time and a feel for opposing offenses, developing plays. I also can't help but wonder how Raekwon would look in that role. What are the specific role designations? I always see this brought up when people talk about Oliver's lack of production in the sack department. What is the defense asking out of these two respective players.

This is the first time in years that all 3 of Bama's down-lineman are producing fairly well (on the stat sheet--they're always loaded at every position talent-wise). Davis is the odd man out. I'll probably get around to a more in-depth analysis on Raekwon and his lack of production, the role he's playing in the front 7 now. I just like the two-sides I've seen from Raekwon. He can play the run (this year). He can rush the passer (last year). If Quinnen comes back and produces close to what he's done so far? Yeah he's no doubt a top-2 pick. But this year? I can't blame someone else for taking that risk. But I wouldn't. Not when other comparable, proven talents are available. This really is the year to snag yourself an interior defensive lineman. 

Yeah I agree, it is probably the best three down DL Alabama has had since Saban has been there.  At times they have had good pass rushing guys on the DL but only one maybe two and they rotated a lot.  Not the best depth with this group but those three sure do a lot and can stay in and be productive

 

In 2015 they had Reed,  Robinson and Tomlinson which was very good starting and Allen, Pettway, Payne and Hand backing them up.  That was more talented overall but in terms of the three starters what they have now beats that group I feel.  And in 2015 those DLs controlled the defense and the game but did not put up huge stats like these guys are this year.

 

I also thought what would Davis do as that NT role, he could not get off blocks as quickly or have as good of a burst but could penetrate and crush the pocket just as good if not better.  

 

 

In 2012 Bama had Square, Stinson, Pagan, Dial, Dickson and Jesse Williams on the DL.  Some of those guys are still holding strong as 3/4 DEs in the NFL still, Williams is kind of built like a 3/4 DT.  But again like I said they are in pass rush situations so often why not put a better pass rusher in a NT and take advantage of that, no need to keep those massive NTs in there when few even run the ball a lot anymore.  

 

Then in 2009 they had Cody, Dareus, Chapman and Deaderick on the DL, Dareus was a freak show monster on that line and was a very high pick.  Sadly has not played up to that in the NFL, shows just how hard to can be when one has a lot of talent but then has to live up to those sky high expectations being a sky high pick.  And wasn't Dareus a RS SOPH in that draft as well, just came on so strong in that title year and everyone loved his power and strength.  

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On 11/5/2018 at 9:13 PM, Ozzy said:

Yeah I agree, it is probably the best three down DL Alabama has had since Saban has been there.  At times they have had good pass rushing guys on the DL but only one maybe two and they rotated a lot.  Not the best depth with this group but those three sure do a lot and can stay in and be productive

 

In 2015 they had Reed,  Robinson and Tomlinson which was very good starting and Allen, Pettway, Payne and Hand backing them up.  That was more talented overall but in terms of the three starters what they have now beats that group I feel.  And in 2015 those DLs controlled the defense and the game but did not put up huge stats like these guys are this year.

 

I also thought what would Davis do as that NT role, he could not get off blocks as quickly or have as good of a burst but could penetrate and crush the pocket just as good if not better.  

 

 

In 2012 Bama had Square, Stinson, Pagan, Dial, Dickson and Jesse Williams on the DL.  Some of those guys are still holding strong as 3/4 DEs in the NFL still, Williams is kind of built like a 3/4 DT.  But again like I said they are in pass rush situations so often why not put a better pass rusher in a NT and take advantage of that, no need to keep those massive NTs in there when few even run the ball a lot anymore.  

 

Then in 2009 they had Cody, Dareus, Chapman and Deaderick on the DL, Dareus was a freak show monster on that line and was a very high pick.  Sadly has not played up to that in the NFL, shows just how hard to can be when one has a lot of talent but then has to live up to those sky high expectations being a sky high pick.  And wasn't Dareus a RS SOPH in that draft as well, just came on so strong in that title year and everyone loved his power and strength.  

dareus was a junior in the draft. he didnt play much his freshman year. 

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Is Jeff Simmons the consensus #3 DT for most of you? I think he looks like a more explosive Kawann Short coming out of Purdue.

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1 hour ago, Jeezla said:

Is Jeff Simmons the consensus #3 DT for most of you? I think he looks like a more explosive Kawann Short coming out of Purdue.

A little lengthier and better against the run.

I love Simmons but am really falling in love with Dexter Lawrence though. He is a force to be reckoned with. Tied IMO

 

Edited by MSURacerDT55

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2 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Is Jeff Simmons the consensus #3 DT for most of you? I think he looks like a more explosive Kawann Short coming out of Purdue.

Yup. Love him.

 

To me it’s:

 

1. Quinnen/Oliver

2. Oliver/Quinnen

*Gap*

3. Simmons

*bigger gap*

4. Everyone else.

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6 hours ago, ClutchDJ said:

Yup. Love him.

 

To me it’s:

 

1. Quinnen/Oliver

2. Oliver/Quinnen

*Gap*

3. Simmons

*bigger gap*

4. Everyone else.

The combine this year is going to be exciting to watch when the DL group does their thing. I won't even try to rank DT4 onwards until they test, because it's splitting hairs with a lot of these man children right now, but Simmons is cemented as DT3 in my opinion. 

Edited by Jeezla

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11 hours ago, Jeezla said:

The combine this year is going to be exciting to watch when the DL group does their thing. I won't even try to rank DT4 onwards until they test, because it's splitting hairs with a lot of these man children right now, but Simmons is cemented as DT3 in my opinion. 

If one is going to list three DTs that is simply foolish, all of these guys should all be in the conversation because I agree they are that close.  Simmons lack of elite pass rush potential is a real thing on a very talented Miss State DL, he should have got home at the QB more often is the one knock on him.  As a run defender is as good as any other DT but as a pass rusher there are others who beat him in that regard.  

 

Raekwon Davis Alabama JR sure one could call him more of a 3/4 DE but could be a star in a 4/3 DT as well.  He has more upside than Simmons arguably but is not as strong at the point of attack or getting off blocks.  

 

Dexter Lawrence Clemson JR, he is not getting the credit he should, especially at that size.  Kid is a rare NT prospect and is so athletic at that size could easily play in a 4/3 no problem as well.  He is a force out there and a possible super star.

 

Christian Wilkins Clemson SR, same as Lawrence, people sleep on him but kid can play football and has a great motor and is a elite athlete.  

 

Derrick Brown Auburn JR, again do not disregard him, sure is not right up there with the rest but has been a beast this season and again at that massive size, quite impressive I must say no doubt.  Could also play NT or DT, has just crushed the pocket this season at times and has played the best ball of his career.

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23 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

If one is going to list three DTs that is simply foolish, all of these guys should all be in the conversation because I agree they are that close.  Simmons lack of elite pass rush potential is a real thing on a very talented Miss State DL, he should have got home at the QB more often is the one knock on him.  As a run defender is as good as any other DT but as a pass rusher there are others who beat him in that regard.  

 

Raekwon Davis Alabama JR sure one could call him more of a 3/4 DE but could be a star in a 4/3 DT as well.  He has more upside than Simmons arguably but is not as strong at the point of attack or getting off blocks.  

 

Dexter Lawrence Clemson JR, he is not getting the credit he should, especially at that size.  Kid is a rare NT prospect and is so athletic at that size could easily play in a 4/3 no problem as well.  He is a force out there and a possible super star.

 

Christian Wilkins Clemson SR, same as Lawrence, people sleep on him but kid can play football and has a great motor and is a elite athlete.  

 

Derrick Brown Auburn JR, again do not disregard him, sure is not right up there with the rest but has been a beast this season and again at that massive size, quite impressive I must say no doubt.  Could also play NT or DT, has just crushed the pocket this season at times and has played the best ball of his career.

If Derrick Brown slipped to the second due to all the other talent at DT and DE, someone is getting a steal.  I would hope it's us, but who knows.

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6 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

If Derrick Brown slipped to the second due to all the other talent at DT and DE, someone is getting a steal.  I would hope it's us, but who knows.

I doubt that happens, all of these guys below should be drafted in the 1st round no question about it.  Montez Sweat might slip into the 2nd but even he could be a 1st rounder also, depends on how well he works out, and same with Jerry Tillery.

 

Ed Oliver Houston DT JR
Nick Bosa Ohio State DE JR
Quinnen Williams Alabama DT/DE RS SOPH
Dexter Lawrence Clemson DT JR
Raekwon Davis Alabama DE/DT JR

Christian Wilkins Clemson DT SR
Rashan Gary Michigan DE JR

Clelin Ferrell Clemson DE RS JR 
Zach Allen Boston College DE SR
Derrick Brown Auburn NT JR
Brian Burns Florida State OLB JR
Jeffery Simmons Miss State DT JR

Dre'Mont Jones Ohio State JR DT

 

 

 

If you want value you would look at these guys, some of them have 1st round potential but could be taken in the 2nd or 3rd round.  That is where the value is, I do not see the players above falling outside of the 1st.  But these guys who could maybe be 1st rounders in a different draft, but are not going to be in this deep draft class for the DL.  So if one wants a steal in terms of guys outside of the 1st round these are maybe some of them.  

Joe Jackson Miami FL DE JR
Corbin Kaufusi BYU DE RS JR
Anthony Nelson Iowa DE RS JR
Charles Omenihu Texas DE SR
Gerald Willis III Miami FL DT SR
Terry Beckner Jr Missouri DT SR 
Ben Banogu TCU DE RS JR
Chase Winovich Michigan DE RS SR 
Daylon  Mack Texas A&M DT SR
Austin Bryant Clemson DE SR
Jalen Jelks Oregon DE RS SR
Marlon Davidson DE Auburn JR 
 

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13 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I doubt that happens, all of these guys below should be drafted in the 1st round no question about it.  Montez Sweat might slip into the 2nd but even he could be a 1st rounder also, depends on how well he works out, and same with Jerry Tillery.

 

Ed Oliver Houston DT JR
Nick Bosa Ohio State DE JR
Quinnen Williams Alabama DT/DE RS SOPH
Dexter Lawrence Clemson DT JR
Raekwon Davis Alabama DE/DT JR

Christian Wilkins Clemson DT SR
Rashan Gary Michigan DE JR

Clelin Ferrell Clemson DE RS JR 
Zach Allen Boston College DE SR
Derrick Brown Auburn NT JR
Brian Burns Florida State OLB JR
Jeffery Simmons Miss State DT JR

Dre'Mont Jones Ohio State JR DT

 

 

 

If you want value you would look at these guys, some of them have 1st round potential but could be taken in the 2nd or 3rd round.  That is where the value is, I do not see the players above falling outside of the 1st.  But these guys who could maybe be 1st rounders in a different draft, but are not going to be in this deep draft class for the DL.  So if one wants a steal in terms of guys outside of the 1st round these are maybe some of them.  

Joe Jackson Miami FL DE JR
Corbin Kaufusi BYU DE RS JR
Anthony Nelson Iowa DE RS JR
Charles Omenihu Texas DE SR
Gerald Willis III Miami FL DT SR
Terry Beckner Jr Missouri DT SR 
Ben Banogu TCU DE RS JR
Chase Winovich Michigan DE RS SR 
Daylon  Mack Texas A&M DT SR
Austin Bryant Clemson DE SR
Jalen Jelks Oregon DE RS SR
Marlon Davidson DE Auburn JR 
 

I agree.  Honestly, I'm glad the Bengals are not in dire need of a DL this year.  Guys at other positions are going to slip further than they should.  Perfect time to get quality elsewhere.

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Gerald Willis III is actually my 4th DT. He’s probably going to go in the 2nd due to his past.

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Dexter Lawrence is my DT #3.

 

Joe Jackson was dominant again today. No way does he slide out of the 1st round IMO. 

 

How good is Javon Kinlaw? He looks like a freaking superhero and from what I have read, uses his length extremely well. He has the makings of a dominant 5-Tech. 

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