LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, Mind Character said: If we get Justin Houston, it wouldn't make financial sense longterm as he's going to get 10-15 million a year and that money can be used elsewhere on our roster. That's starter money with potential big dead money cap hit built in. He's problematic financially because he could end up having a big dead money cap hit in 2 years along with various other players currently on the roster at the wrong time financially for us (the season prior to preparing our books to sign Baker, Myles, and Ward). If we do bring him in somehow, it means that Ogbah heading into his final year is definitely gone sooner rather than later. Sometime soon I'm going to breakdown in-depth how our "tons of salary cap space" is a phantom produced by brilliant salary cap manipulation by Sashi and DePo via the salary cap carry over rule after two year of purging big cap numbers, as well as smart management of dead money. How we're not really in the great salary cap position that people think we're in due to popularization of factoids like "the Browns have the most cap in the league... they have tons of cap space." If we're not careful we're going to be in serious trouble financially in 3 years b/c our cash payroll is actually in the middle of the league. Our player payroll ranks 14th highest in the league this year (most people perceive us to have on of the lowest in the league but it's not the case); on the books for 2020 we'll be 9th; and the following year in 2021 we're projected to be 6th highest . Without the Salary cap carry over we'd have about 13 million in cap space based on the Top-51 salary index at spotrac (188 million league decided salary cap number Minus 175 million top 51 payroll cap committments). When adding in the dead money for this year of 15 million, we'd actually be in the negatives (-2 million). This year ... We carried over 56 million to create an inflated cap space number of 244 million. For comparison, the 5th highest carry over number was 18 million. The point of this all is to say that carrying over the cap doesn't last forever as eventually owners don't want to maintain high payrolls. The offseason that we decide to reduce our carry over we could be in trouble 2 to 3 years from now unless we manage our contracts with expert care from here on out. We won't be in trouble next year, but we're on the path to serious cap trouble that a lot of teams have been on and didn't manage well to their detriment. With a QB contract, top DE contract, and top CB in the pipeline for the future... it's best not to take on big cap numbers that we'll have to cut early with big dead money hits. Justin Houston is one of that variety imo. I mean I know you’ve been on sabbatical, but this has been discussed. I think we’re aware of the carryover and what our cap situation looks like. I think we’re also in that beautiful window of “QB on a rookie deal” and we want to maximize that time by making a run at things. Nobody is taking about giving Houston a 6 year deal, but essentially a 2 year deal that allows us to burn some carryover and rid his salary when time comes to reup the youngsters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I will leave it up to Dorsey re Houston. I mean, he knows a little bit about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, bruceb said: I will leave it up to Dorsey re Houston. I mean, he knows a little bit about him. I don’t think we have a choice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: I don’t think we have a choice. Of course we don't. Which is why speculating is time misspent. If Dorsey wants him, I want him, and Depo will work out the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, bruceb said: Of course we don't. Which is why speculating is time misspent. This is an odd perspective for a man with 11,000 posts on an internet forum. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: This is an odd perspective for a man with 11,000 posts on an internet forum. 11,000+, mostly done when I was younger, more foolish and less mindful of how I spend my time. I have learned to be more selective in choosing debates. Thinking more, reacting less. Edited March 11, 2019 by bruceb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 40 minutes ago, bruceb said: 11,000+, mostly done when I was younger, more foolish and less mindful of how I spend my time. I have learned to be more selective in choosing debates. Thinking more, reacting less. Back when you were a carefree 54 year old, still naive to the ways of the world? 😂 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I mean I know you’ve been on sabbatical, but this has been discussed. I think we’re aware of the carryover and what our cap situation looks like. I think we’re also in that beautiful window of “QB on a rookie deal” and we want to maximize that time by making a run at things. Nobody is taking about giving Houston a 6 year deal, but essentially a 2 year deal that allows us to burn some carryover and rid his salary when time comes to reup the youngsters. Indeed, the rookie QB contract window is truly what a time to be alive... Yeah... I'm sure I missed a lot of those good discussions... If we could get him on a 2 year deal with a no dead money out that would be nice. I think the market value for his contract will be the traditional 3 year day with 2nd year out but with a bad dead money hit. That's all I'm trying to avoid; that is, signing 2 year rental players that we know we're going to try to cut for immediate cap savings but that lead to dead money hits that keep piling up. From my limited perspective on catching up on some pages in the FA thread it seemed like a lot of the faithful are of the opinion that our Cap space means we're in a great and sustainable place cap-wise. My point was just it's not so rosy as we've been led to think given how the 3 years in a row of league leading carry over is masking a lurking issue if our cap specialists and execs are not diligent and meticulous about planning for the next 3 years. Since it's been discussed I'll just have to take a cold shower so this long-post wood subsides ... what a shame.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 @CBrownsman Has done some good posting on the cap. @buno67 wants to make it rain like pac man at a strip club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I’d like Kyle Rudolph as a #2 TE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: @CBrownsman Has done some good posting on the cap. @buno67 wants to make it rain like pac man at a strip club. How so? I have just been accepting of the idea of trading for OBJ. There is no high cost FA that I really want besides Jordan Hicks. Allthe DL talent I want have been tagged or resigned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 5 hours ago, candyman93 said: I’d like Kyle Rudolph as a #2 TE I would like him too but I don’t see him leaving Minny tho For #2 TEs I like Austin Seferian-Jenkins Tyler Eifert (basically any of the cincy TE\ actually). I know a major injury liability but when he is actually healthy, he is damn good. Hell sign him and only use him when the offens enters the redzone. Jesse James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelbell Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 The more I think about it, I’d really like to see us draft Noah Fant or TJ Hockenson if we trade back a few from #17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I think Houston will want too much $$$ to realistically have a chance at coming here as a rotational player 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Just now, pnies20 said: I think Houston will want too much $$$ to realistically have a chance at coming here as a rotational player Agreed. If Fowler is getting 14 million Houston might get 75 million a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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