Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition

[M.10.E]

Man, if we're being honest, I'm just tired of watching the same exact average team the last 5 years (sans 2014).

 

Related to the on-going convo, giving big money to a RB is a no go, sorry.

[wackywabbit]

I doubt it'd even be discussed, and yes, 2nd contract running backs don't live up to their contracts. 

OTOH, I don't believe money/cap space is an actual issue that keeps teams from winning. Lacking playmakers does. So, it's nice to think about.

Edited November 7, 2018 by wackywabbit

[coordinator0]

4 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I mean, I think DeMarco Murray should be a giant red flag here, no? Le'Veon is following that same path.

No. Bell and Murray are/were very different as runners. Le'Veon isn't as fragile and offers way more all-around too.

For what it's worth for the last bit I was reacting more towards the general argument than the specifics. I absolutely hate comparing past occurrences to a new, singular case. Whatever happened with guys in a similar situation before has absolutely no bearing on what will happen with Bell (or anybody else). These are completely different individuals with different circumstances. 

4 hours ago, Danand said:

Unless James Conner suddenly become a top prospect, his success could be a combination of both talent but also great circumstances with the Steelers. Not sure Bell would do much with us as we are build atm.

Connor was a higher-end running back prospect before the cancer. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

If it wasn't a RB, I might be more open to it, but because RB's are so easy to find in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I just disagree with that approach of paying an already over-the-hill RB who's just gonna decline for us as soon as we get him. It's like buying a new car with Le'Veon. I'd rather just go through the draft.

[M.10.E]

3 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

OTOH, I don't believe money/cap space is an actual issue that keeps teams from winning. Lacking playmakers does. So, it's nice to think about.

At least we gave a NT who plays less than half of the snaps $14M/yr.

[DreamKid]

It will be interesting to see Decosta's early moves at the helm.

Beyond the recent lack of success dragging down the Club's luster and prestige a bit as of late, we're also losing Ozzie's reputation. He's a legendary figure, not only the first ever African-American GM but one of the greatest NFL executives ever. Players young and old wanted to come and play for him, as well as avoid letting him down. Add in possibly losing Harbaugh, who for whatever you think of his actual ability as a coach was constantly vouched for by veteran players in this league, and we have a lot to establish once again. 

Ozzie talked about how Eric was the main voice that pushed the Lamar Jackson Trade Up through, and I would be in favor of him building upon that aggressiveness. 

Just look at some of the Patriots recent moves-

- They trade a 1st Round Pick for Brandin Cooks. Rent him for a year as a major contributor to a Super Bowl run.

- Then they trade Cooks - for a higher pick then they payed for him. 

- They turn that new 1st Round Pick into a 21 year old Left Tackle (Isaiah Wynn) to replace Nate Solder who left on a massive overpay. & For good measure trade a 3rd for another talented young Tackle in Trent Brown. 

-They trade a 5th Round Pick for maybe the best Returner in the league and underrated playmaker in Cordarrelle Patterson.

- They trade a 5th for Josh Gordon to add another low risk-high reward player

 

Now not all of those moves would make sense for us as a team but a few would. Who wouldn't be in favor of having Trent Brown on the team? Or Patterson? It's time to get in the driver's seat. 

[diamondbull424]

11 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I mean, I think DeMarco Murray should be a giant red flag here, no? Le'Veon is following that same path.

 

11 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

When's the last time a RB not on his rookie deal went to another team and had a lot of success there? Justin Forsett?

LeVeon Bell compares more to a guy like Frank Gore with his physicality and ability to execute in the passing game and as a pass blocker. He will be older and I wouldn’t be willing to break the bank for him, but his market value has surely declined due to the fact that Connor has come on as strong as he has. Perception of his market value will be “maybe it’s really the Steelers OL and not him” he’s also older as well. What’s more a lot of teams addressed their RB issues with the last two strong RB draft classes. Thus the market competition isn’t going to be nearly as strong. Add in the potential animosity he might have for the Steelers not investing in him as well as talking ish about him and he might be willing to rock the Purple and Black to prove a point.

Hes got three seasons before he hits the infamous 30 year mark and so I’d be willing to offer him a nice contract to address the position.

On another note, agree with @coordinator0about using the draft to then build up the offensive line with quality talent. Especially considering the lack of game breaking RB talent in this class as compared to previous classes, I wouldn’t be against going this route. Especially considering next year might be the true playoffs or bust season for Harbaugh to get things done.

Edited November 8, 2018 by diamondbull424

[DreamKid]

9 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Especially considering next year might be the true playoffs or bust season for Harbaugh to get things done.

You really think he could survive another season if we don't make the playoffs?

On a related note, I wonder if we could trade him? 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

13 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

You really think he could survive another season if we don't make the playoffs?

On a related note, I wonder if we could trade him? 

With the way his reputation is around the league, I'm sure we could but it would probably be hard to do.

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, DreamKid said:

You really think he could survive another season if we don't make the playoffs?

On a related note, I wonder if we could trade him? 

I think he could. Marvin Lewis has survived a longer tenure. The Ravens are generally about sticking to their word and they gave Harbaugh an extension that runs through the 2019 season.

The Ozzie to DeCosta move was on a five year plan. And barring a complete meltdown where Harbaugh finishes .500 or below, than I think he would be given that final year with Flacco gone, with Lamar Jackson, and a draft that caters to the biggest team deficiencies giving him absolutely no excuse. I don’t believe this is the type of organization that folds under the pressure of the fans like some of the major markets. Outside of an incredible coaching candidate being all in for the Ravens HC job prior to removing Harbaugh, I don’t see him gone.

But that’s JMO, I suppose. I just see our organization as generally trying to stick to their word and being reliable when it comes to contracts outside of obviously horrible play. And Harbaugh has not been horrible at any point like with Billick. He’s been down, but generally he’s consistently coaching an average to above average team. I just see the organization as having too much integrity to get rid of Harbaugh early.

[Danand]

If/when we don’t get into the playoffs this year, I believe Harbaugh will be on the hot seat in 2019 – but not in a way where he will be fired.

If we miss again in 2019 with Lamar Jackson at QB (which I think is the most likely scenario), I believe Harbaugh just won’t get extended and we will let him go and look somewhere else. Then that coach will have 3 years to work with Lamar Jackson which is a fair amount of time to evaluate a HC.

The only way I can see Harbaugh buying himself more time after 2019 is a combination of changing coordinators and injuries to key personel.

[diamondbull424]

5 hours ago, Danand said:

If/when we don’t get into the playoffs this year, I believe Harbaugh will be on the hot seat in 2019 – but not in a way where he will be fired.

If we miss again in 2019 with Lamar Jackson at QB (which I think is the most likely scenario), I believe Harbaugh just won’t get extended and we will let him go and look somewhere else. Then that coach will have 3 years to work with Lamar Jackson which is a fair amount of time to evaluate a HC.

The only way I can see Harbaugh buying himself more time after 2019 is a combination of changing coordinators and injuries to key personel.

Yup. This is the exact way I see this going. We just don’t seem like the organization to overreact to perception. The moment we give in to that type of way of running an organization, the moment we start firing coaches after one bad year or one horrible coaching game. And that’s the moment when the Ravens organization can no longer compete for playoff capability year in and year out. We may not have made the playoffs for the last few years, but we KNOW year in and year out that we will be right around that finish line, unlike teams in the NFCE or the Browns or the Bengals or the Titans, etc. Fans need to face that Baltimore isn’t a premier market, but we are a premier organization and that’s what has allowed us to compete so consistently for the past decade.

[Danand]

3 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yup. This is the exact way I see this going. We just don’t seem like the organization to overreact to perception. The moment we give in to that type of way of running an organization, the moment we start firing coaches after one bad year or one horrible coaching game. And that’s the moment when the Ravens organization can no longer compete for playoff capability year in and year out. We may not have made the playoffs for the last few years, but we KNOW year in and year out that we will be right around that finish line, unlike teams in the NFCE or the Browns or the Bengals or the Titans, etc. Fans need to face that Baltimore isn’t a premier market, but we are a premier organization and that’s what has allowed us to compete so consistently for the past decade.

What speaks for Harbaugh is the history with putting a team on the field that have been in or within 1 game of playoffs every year except 1 in 2015. The ability to stay competitive and also have a proven playoff record is something that keep him out of Marvin Lewis territory. He also didn’t inherit a good team which he later drove into the ground. The rollercoaster ride other teams have had like the Chargers hasn’t paid of as well, and even a Pete Carroll led Seahawks have not been able to keep up the pace and get into the playoffs every year.

Harbaugh is right there with Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid (and I have probably forgot someone here, maybe Ron Rivera) who have had great tenures and won playoff games. Payton especially has been criticized for the inability to hire a defensive coach that could put together a defense that would make the Saints competitive year in and year out with a Drew Brees at quarterback.

Sometimes there is a need for bringing in new blood (it can be McVay young/Wade Phillips old), but being a culture coach more than a DC somewhat allows Harbaugh to keep himself safe as long as there is a somewhat productive unit on both sides of the ball.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, Danand said:

What speaks for Harbaugh is the history with putting a team on the field that have been in or within 1 game of playoffs every year except 1 in 2015. The ability to stay competitive and also have a proven playoff record is something that keep him out of Marvin Lewis territory. He also didn’t inherit a good team which he later drove into the ground. The rollercoaster ride other teams have had like the Chargers hasn’t paid of as well, and even a Pete Carroll led Seahawks have not been able to keep up the pace and get into the playoffs every year.

The Seahawks have missed the playoffs once in the Pete Carroll era (last year), and it was on a missed FG which lost them the game, which lost them their playoff spot, in a year where their entire defense was basically on IR and Russell Wilson accounted 90+% of the entire team's production. The Ravens have made the playoffs once out of the past 6 years, with the only time being when Gary Kubiak was here. Not entirely an apples-to-apples comparison. Furthermore, the Seahawks are immediately back to fighting for a playoff spot with a top defense the year after gutting everything and people saying they were going full rebuild and will be picking top 5 overall. We're in the same damn place we've been in for the past 6 years.

2 hours ago, Danand said:

Harbaugh is right there with Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid (and I have probably forgot someone here, maybe Ron Rivera) who have had great tenures and won playoff games.

Oof....

 

[DreamKid]

As we head into the second half of the season- What are some of your Surprises of the Year so far?  Negative or Positive. 

For me,

1. The Collapse of the Running Game

I don't think anyone saw this coming.  A positional drop off from Jensen to Skura, sure. A league worst offering? F*&% no.....

We all thought Roman and Joe D'Alessandris overcame a lack of ability/talent across the line last season, which makes this season's results all the more shocking.

2. Poor Special Teams Play

This is an under the radar story this season. Blocked kicks, Penalties, Tucker missing a PAT? .....I don't know what to believe in anymore.

3. Joe Not Being Broken

He's in a 2 game slump right now, but I'm still shocked at the quality play we've seen from Joe this year. I truly thought the injuries might've broken him. The last few seasons have been rough, with 2017 being a true hellscape. Joe is overcoming the poor play of the line and not crumbling when facing adversity like he did last year. Hopefully he bounces back to his early season form and then advances beyond it to January Joe form. We'll need it for a late push.

4. Three out of Three?

We don't have a great Draft History as far as Wide Receivers go, that's no secret. This club has long lived on Free Agent pick ups at the position. Last year we had one of the worst ever in Jeremy Maclin. This year, all signs point to a perfect recruiting class by Ozzie. The Ryan Grant hiccup had us worried. Luckily though, they caught that injury he was hiding and we ended up with Crabtree-Brown-Snead. All of them have largely outperformed expectations and despite being in their 1st year with Joe, they've shown a commendable level of chemistry with him. As a unit, our core's trajectory is only pointing up.

5. Kenny Young....

Maybe the 2018 Draft Class's biggest question mark, has turned into one of our top performing Rookie LBs ever. Instincts, Discipline, Versatility, Speed, Explosion....he's shown it all. Kenny has excelled against the run, in coverage, and rushing the passer. He's made the CJ Mosley decision much easier, and made our future all the brighter.