Tugboat Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: I think we still need a TE1. ASJ cant be relied on to be a #1 I kind of agree. But at the same time, I don't think there's really a TE in this draft who would unseat ASJ from day 1. TE is almost always a position that takes a while to get up to speed on top of that. So whether we go there 1st/2nd/3rd...might ultimately not even matter as far as timeline for overtaking ASJ as real TE1. And there are guys who will be going round 2/3 who have at least as much "upside" as a guy like Hurst, if not more. While also being several years younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 That's really the deal with TE...this is such a deep crop and none of them will unseat ASJ. I know some will disagree, but clearly the team views highly of him enough to let Lewis go. I'd be fine with Hernandez/Thomas in rounds 1/2. I do agree that we can find better value in the 3rd round than a 2-down backer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 10 hours ago, Speedyg said: That's really the deal with TE...this is such a deep crop and none of them will unseat ASJ. I know some will disagree, but clearly the team views highly of him enough to let Lewis go. I'd be fine with Hernandez/Thomas in rounds 1/2. I do agree that we can find better value in the 3rd round than a 2-down backer. If they cant then we shouldn't take any of them early. ASJ is average at best. Yes rookie TEs rarely go off but that's because people compare their stats to WRs. If a WR goes for 1000-6 its an above average season but its great for a TE. We all thought Keelan Cole had a great rookie season for a rookie but he did only have 748 yards and 3 TDs and if we get that from a rookie TE, I think that would be great since we assume they will get better and build off it not to mention we've set the bar for TEs so low anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 48 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: If they cant then we shouldn't take any of them early. ASJ is average at best. Yes rookie TEs rarely go off but that's because people compare their stats to WRs. If a WR goes for 1000-6 its an above average season but its great for a TE. We all thought Keelan Cole had a great rookie season for a rookie but he did only have 748 yards and 3 TDs and if we get that from a rookie TE, I think that would be great since we assume they will get better and build off it not to mention we've set the bar for TEs so low anyways But u have to make a distinction though... First is 700 yards and 3 TD attainable for a rookie TE? I can't remember which thread but I know at one point I posted rookie stats for TE and they mostly fall below that. If I recall they post similar numbers to what Marcedes did last season. If so, is that considered an impact player? 500/4 is the realistic numbers for TE, and that's assuming they are the #1. In a run heavy offense, whoever we take will have to contend in snaps vs ASJ (because blocking is still this team's primary desire out of that position). Howard is a better prospect (both blocking and receiving) than any of the guys this year, played in a more TE friendly offense/QB and he ended up with 26/432/6. Lewis had 24/318/5. Overall our TE(and I'll be generous and include Bohanon in this) got 90 targets last season..combined. Now we can say maybe they don't use them because we didn't have the "horses", and perhaps that's true. But based on everything I've seen (and I think BCC looked at past hackett/marrone offenses to look at TE numbers), I don't believe well get the best bang for our buck there if we took one in the 1st round....and this is coming from a guy who wanted Howard last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 1 hour ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: If they cant then we shouldn't take any of them early. ASJ is average at best. Yes rookie TEs rarely go off but that's because people compare their stats to WRs. If a WR goes for 1000-6 its an above average season but its great for a TE. We all thought Keelan Cole had a great rookie season for a rookie but he did only have 748 yards and 3 TDs and if we get that from a rookie TE, I think that would be great since we assume they will get better and build off it not to mention we've set the bar for TEs so low anyways I feel like this remains to be seen. Up until last year he wasn't ever committed to football. The talent is there to be much more than "at best average", imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 40 minutes ago, Speedyg said: But u have to make a distinction though... First is 700 yards and 3 TD attainable for a rookie TE? I can't remember which thread but I know at one point I posted rookie stats for TE and they mostly fall below that. If I recall they post similar numbers to what Marcedes did last season. If so, is that considered an impact player? 500/4 is the realistic numbers for TE, and that's assuming they are the #1. In a run heavy offense, whoever we take will have to contend in snaps vs ASJ (because blocking is still this team's primary desire out of that position). Howard is a better prospect (both blocking and receiving) than any of the guys this year, played in a more TE friendly offense/QB and he ended up with 26/432/6. Lewis had 24/318/5. Overall our TE(and I'll be generous and include Bohanon in this) got 90 targets last season..combined. Now we can say maybe they don't use them because we didn't have the "horses", and perhaps that's true. But based on everything I've seen (and I think BCC looked at past hackett/marrone offenses to look at TE numbers), I don't believe well get the best bang for our buck there if we took one in the 1st round....and this is coming from a guy who wanted Howard last year. I mean, if we drafted Gesicki and got that production it'd be a hell of a lot tougher than if we got a guy like Hurst who is more than a receiver and can get after it in the run game. If we draft an OT that doesn't fare well moving inside he's likely not going to see the field much barring injury either. Only position who could/should start their rookie year would be a RG, and MAYBE a WR. So not sure we should get to hung up on production from a position from year one as they aren't likely to be counted on anyways unless an injury occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 50 minutes ago, .Buzz said: I feel like this remains to be seen. Up until last year he wasn't ever committed to football. The talent is there to be much more than "at best average", imo. Not committed to football...that sentence alone should send chills down your spine. Doesnt matter if he has talent if his heart isnt in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 47 minutes ago, .Buzz said: I mean, if we drafted Gesicki and got that production it'd be a hell of a lot tougher than if we got a guy like Hurst who is more than a receiver and can get after it in the run game. If we draft an OT that doesn't fare well moving inside he's likely not going to see the field much barring injury either. Only position who could/should start their rookie year would be a RG, and MAYBE a WR. So not sure we should get to hung up on production from a position from year one as they aren't likely to be counted on anyways unless an injury occurs. I think RT is a higher chance of a starter than a WR. Even LB possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 44 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: Not committed to football...that sentence alone should send chills down your spine. Doesnt matter if he has talent if his heart isnt in it I mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 45 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: I think RT is a higher chance of a starter than a WR. Even LB possibly SAM is not going to be on the field much. Parnell was very solid last year and is a key vet, I'd be very surprised to see him unseated. I think there's a better chance of a rookie making the top 3 at WR then unseating a stable guy like Parnell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 1 hour ago, .Buzz said: SAM is not going to be on the field much. Parnell was very solid last year and is a key vet, I'd be very surprised to see him unseated. I think there's a better chance of a rookie making the top 3 at WR then unseating a stable guy like Parnell. sam could be on the field more if they get a guy kinda like Bruce irvin. i still wonder why we havent tried Fowler out as a sam lber. gets him on the field more and allows us to scheme him into pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000928186/article/mike-mayocks-2018-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 6 hours ago, .Buzz said: I mean, if we drafted Gesicki and got that production it'd be a hell of a lot tougher than if we got a guy like Hurst who is more than a receiver and can get after it in the run game. If we draft an OT that doesn't fare well moving inside he's likely not going to see the field much barring injury either. Only position who could/should start their rookie year would be a RG, and MAYBE a WR. So not sure we should get to hung up on production from a position from year one as they aren't likely to be counted on anyways unless an injury occurs. I don't necessarily mean production starting wise, though I can see how that can be taken since I don't think I made it very clear. The team is very deep and they pretty much positioned our roster in a way that we can go whatever position because we don't have many needs. What I meant to say is that, finding a TE who can give us 25/400/5 is not that difficult and that we can grab one probably mid 4th that will be more than capable of being #2 behind ASJ as they develop. Whereas, players at OT, corner, pass rushers I feel we need to take one in 1st and 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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