Darbsk Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 10 hours ago, drfrey13 said: My entire life I looked to go up against people that were older, stronger, and better than I was. I was going to learn and/or get better. Carr just does not have that grit. If we brought in Julio Jones Carr would say great. If we brought in Tom Brady he would not say let me pick this guys brain and beat him in camp. He does not strive to get better but thinks those around him need to get better. That is the sign of someone who has not been called out. I have no idea how you can say this so definitively, that Carr does not strive to get better and if he only had a little of your obvious grit 😁 You dont think an NFL QB strives to get better, that he hasn't worked hard? Even poor ones like McGloin or Gradkowski work incredibly hard. Whether you like Carr or not I dont think there has been many criticise his work ethic, Gruden himself cited that as a huge positive when he became coach. He always seems positive in trying to get receivers together to work out and I've never heard anyone criticise his desire to improve. I usually find what you post informative and interesting but this is just bizarre criticism. Just seems like criticism for the sake of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Darbsk said: I have no idea how you can say this so definitively, that Carr does not strive to get better and if he only had a little of your obvious grit 😁 You dont think an NFL QB strives to get better, that he hasn't worked hard? Even poor ones like McGloin or Gradkowski work incredibly hard. Whether you like Carr or not I dont think there has been many criticise his work ethic, Gruden himself cited that as a huge positive when he became coach. He always seems positive in trying to get receivers together to work out and I've never heard anyone criticise his desire to improve. I usually find what you post informative and interesting but this is just bizarre criticism. Just seems like criticism for the sake of it. Yes I do believe not all professionals strive to get better. Some make it on talent and choose not to increase effort or find more efficient ways to perform their craft. If Carr put 80 hours a week into doing his job you would say he has a good work ethic but if he can not make it work with 80 hours of work something needs to change. He needs to put in more work or different work. My opinion is that he believes what he does is enough and that it is others inability to do the same that holds the team back. He needs to look within why this is not working and stop stop looking outside. I say this because of his reactions to criticism. I know a lot of people that put in the work but can not make it work because they believe they are not the problem or them changing would not fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&B Bleeder Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Not to stop you guys from arguing about Carr but I just heard the over/under bet for wins for the Raiders this season at 7.5. -110 for either bet. Then some prognosticators on NFL Network push for the under bet saying the Raiders will only be 6 &10 or 7 & 9. Boooo. What do they know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 54 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Yes I do believe not all professionals strive to get better. Some make it on talent and choose not to increase effort or find more efficient ways to perform their craft. If Carr put 80 hours a week into doing his job you would say he has a good work ethic but if he can not make it work with 80 hours of work something needs to change. He needs to put in more work or different work. My opinion is that he believes what he does is enough and that it is others inability to do the same that holds the team back. He needs to look within why this is not working and stop stop looking outside. I say this because of his reactions to criticism. I know a lot of people that put in the work but can not make it work because they believe they are not the problem or them changing would not fix the problem. What a load of gibberish. Gruden and Mayock knew the offense needed more weapons and brought in Ruggs, Edwards, Bowden, Witten, Agholor, Booker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said: What a load of gibberish. Gruden and Mayock knew the offense needed more weapons and brought in Ruggs, Edwards, Bowden, Witten, Agholor, Booker Nobody is arguing that we lacked talent. The argument is if Carr is part of the problem, solution, nuetral, and how he feels about himself. Next time you want to jump in an argument make sure you understand the argument. @Darbsk This is completely my opinion and this is one of many reasons why the team is not functioning at an optimal level even with a lack of talent. You can have a group of scrubs that buys into the system and plays as a team and they will find more success then their talent would dictate. We may have had a lack of talent but I think we still played beneath our talent level. The coaching staff could just as easily be as big if not a bigger problem than Carr and talent but nobody really gets into that argument as much as the Carr debates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, S&B Bleeder said: Not to stop you guys from arguing about Carr but I just heard the over/under bet for wins for the Raiders this season at 7.5. -110 for either bet. Then some prognosticators on NFL Network push for the under bet saying the Raiders will only be 6 &10 or 7 & 9. Boooo. What do they know. Why is it that we are always seen as a below average team? We have changed just about every piece of the team. This is why I always go back to Carr and the coaching. I would like to hear their unedited reasons why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&B Bleeder Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Why is it that we are always seen as a below average team? We have changed just about every piece of the team. This is why I always go back to Carr and the coaching. I would like to hear their unedited reasons why. It's likely because we have been a below average team. I go through this all the time with higher hopes than your average sport commentator. We are not liked by many; there is the East Coast bias. Some despise the Raiders. The commentators I referred to ragged on our draft. They said we have difficult opponents. I thought it was just the opposite. We've bolsters our defense. We've added weapons to our offense. We'll have competition at QB. However, this season will be.......different. No fans it looks like. How will we do? I'm up for it and may lay a bet on wins over 7.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 5 hours ago, S&B Bleeder said: However, this season will be.......different. No fans it looks like. How will we do? I'm up for it and may lay a bet on wins over 7.5. This is a HUGE advantage for us. Carr was BOO'ed on his way out of Oakland. If he got that treatment in a brand new city walking in then that would be embarrassing for not only him but the franchise and the city of Las Vegas. So if he stinks up this season he'll either be replaced or plans made to move on. If he shines then fans will cheer and say they always had his back. We love our Carr...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 10 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Nobody is arguing that we lacked talent. The argument is if Carr is part of the problem, solution, nuetral, and how he feels about himself. Next time you want to jump in an argument make sure you understand the argument. @Darbsk This is completely my opinion and this is one of many reasons why the team is not functioning at an optimal level even with a lack of talent. You can have a group of scrubs that buys into the system and plays as a team and they will find more success then their talent would dictate. We may have had a lack of talent but I think we still played beneath our talent level. The coaching staff could just as easily be as big if not a bigger problem than Carr and talent but nobody really gets into that argument as much as the Carr debates. I'm not so sure to be honest, I agree that talent was lacking last year but for the first half of the season in particular and probably right up until our last 4 or 5 games we were playing pretty well within our system and the offense was quite efficient though not exciting or explosive, we really struggled the last quarter of the season and I don't think its any coincidence that at that stage Williams was struggling, Brown and Jacobs were struggling and Jackson had come back probably too early aswell. Carr didn't do well in the last quarter but I thought for the most part he played very well within the bounds of the system and kept us in the playoff hunt which I think was a pleasant surprise for most. I hope and think with a little added talent and natural improvement in the system we'll open it up a bit more this year, we were particularly risk averse last season and its my expectation that we'll see a better Carr this year - though I do think he was pretty good last year playing within what we wanted him to do. I think coaching, playcalling and Carr will improve this year and I expect us to be really competitive and shock a few people. I think the issues that came home to roost last season were: A lack of talent and depth in particular so we were not able to cope when key injuries struck, Carr didn't trust the guys getting playing time Carr is naturally a conservative QB who's never going to be comfortable winging it but can be very good in our scheme but when we lost key pieces he struggled, only guys like Russell Wilson could have made it work last couple games IMO The system was pretty basic WCO and we didn't trust the depth players making it predictable and less explosive and the playcalling was toned down as we simply didn't have the talent to execute The coaches failed to adapt and make adjustments especially in the 2nd half of games We had a pretty tough schedule with lots of travelling which gradually took its toll. I think it was a combination of factors but the good news is I think there are things we can do or have done to make big improvements and I think we'll surprise this year 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 17 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Why is it that we are always seen as a below average team? We have changed just about every piece of the team. This is why I always go back to Carr and the coaching. I would like to hear their unedited reasons why. We have very few proven players. Our best player is a Center. It's a team that could be succesful IF some young guys take the next step or prove their 1st year wasn't a fluke (Jacobs, Crosby) and the rookies are ready to perform. Can't be seen as a good team yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Darbsk said: The coaches failed to adapt and make adjustments especially in the 2nd half of games This has really been an issue under Gruden. Either he needs to apply more pressure for the coaches to prepare players or he needs to look to upgrade. I was disappointed we kept the coaches going into last year but they did extremely well at times and earned this season but upgrading from Buck to Rod was important. When there's an opportunity to really upgrade you make the move. Was hoping for Jay to join but the drama coming from that franchise makes me happy we didn't because we don't need drama. Mack 2018/AB 2019. 2020 will have enough drama I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Darbsk said: I'm not so sure to be honest, I agree that talent was lacking last year but for the first half of the season in particular and probably right up until our last 4 or 5 games we were playing pretty well within our system and the offense was quite efficient though not exciting or explosive, we really struggled the last quarter of the season and I don't think its any coincidence that at that stage Williams was struggling, Brown and Jacobs were struggling and Jackson had come back probably too early aswell. Carr didn't do well in the last quarter but I thought for the most part he played very well within the bounds of the system and kept us in the playoff hunt which I think was a pleasant surprise for most. I hope and think with a little added talent and natural improvement in the system we'll open it up a bit more this year, we were particularly risk averse last season and its my expectation that we'll see a better Carr this year - though I do think he was pretty good last year playing within what we wanted him to do. I think coaching, playcalling and Carr will improve this year and I expect us to be really competitive and shock a few people. I think the issues that came home to roost last season were: A lack of talent and depth in particular so we were not able to cope when key injuries struck, Carr didn't trust the guys getting playing time Carr is naturally a conservative QB who's never going to be comfortable winging it but can be very good in our scheme but when we lost key pieces he struggled, only guys like Russell Wilson could have made it work last couple games IMO The system was pretty basic WCO and we didn't trust the depth players making it predictable and less explosive and the playcalling was toned down as we simply didn't have the talent to execute The coaches failed to adapt and make adjustments especially in the 2nd half of games We had a pretty tough schedule with lots of travelling which gradually took its toll. I think it was a combination of factors but the good news is I think there are things we can do or have done to make big improvements and I think we'll surprise this year 😀 All of this could easily be true and add to the problems the only part I do not agree with is the bold. The tough part of our schedule were weeks 3-8 but after the first 10 games we were 6-4. We then went 1-5 and that says a lot about the injuries. Jacobs, or good run game, I believe is the lynch pin for this team moving forward. Carr can not make the run game better but a good run game makes him better now. One of the reasons why I wanted to go hard after Hyde or another back in the draft that could handle the load. I said it before but I think our season goes down the drain because Jacobs gets hurt again this year. If he stays healthy we will play a lot better through the year. Bowden and Richard are both valuable pieces but we would be better off only having one and adding someone that could takeover for Jacobs. There will be a lot of options next year and expect us to get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, oakdb36 said: We have very few proven players. Our best player is a Center. It's a team that could be succesful IF some young guys take the next step or prove their 1st year wasn't a fluke (Jacobs, Crosby) and the rookies are ready to perform. Can't be seen as a good team yet. I do not argue talent level. What I argue is the ability to play above or at that level. I think we underachieve and that is why we have been selecting players from winning programs so much. The trajectory is upward so I do have some hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: All of this could easily be true and add to the problems the only part I do not agree with is the bold. The tough part of our schedule were weeks 3-8 but after the first 10 games we were 6-4. We then went 1-5 and that says a lot about the injuries. Jacobs, or good run game, I believe is the lynch pin for this team moving forward. Carr can not make the run game better but a good run game makes him better now. One of the reasons why I wanted to go hard after Hyde or another back in the draft that could handle the load. I said it before but I think our season goes down the drain because Jacobs gets hurt again this year. If he stays healthy we will play a lot better through the year. Bowden and Richard are both valuable pieces but we would be better off only having one and adding someone that could takeover for Jacobs. There will be a lot of options next year and expect us to get one. I dont disagree with that, the one worry I had about Jacobs and mentioned it a few times in the draft threads was that he had never had to shoulder an NFL like workload, now we know he had the talent but whether he can get his body adjusted to that full 16 game schedule and 15 to 20 carries a game, every game is something of a concern and was to me at the time we drafted him. Totally agree we need a guy like Hyde to take some of the heavy lifting and I'm not sure if Bowden, Booker or Richard are the answer, maybe not. With regard to the travelling I think we coped well but games like the Jets game I think it caught up with us, but I'll concede that point if the schedule was as you say, to be honest I cant remember when we did most of the long flights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 13 hours ago, Darbsk said: I'm not so sure to be honest, I agree that talent was lacking last year but for the first half of the season in particular and probably right up until our last 4 or 5 games we were playing pretty well within our system and the offense was quite efficient though not exciting or explosive, we really struggled the last quarter of the season and I don't think its any coincidence that at that stage Williams was struggling, Brown and Jacobs were struggling and Jackson had come back probably too early aswell. Carr didn't do well in the last quarter but I thought for the most part he played very well within the bounds of the system and kept us in the playoff hunt which I think was a pleasant surprise for most. I hope and think with a little added talent and natural improvement in the system we'll open it up a bit more this year, we were particularly risk averse last season and its my expectation that we'll see a better Carr this year - though I do think he was pretty good last year playing within what we wanted him to do. I think coaching, playcalling and Carr will improve this year and I expect us to be really competitive and shock a few people. I think the issues that came home to roost last season were: A lack of talent and depth in particular so we were not able to cope when key injuries struck, Carr didn't trust the guys getting playing time Carr is naturally a conservative QB who's never going to be comfortable winging it but can be very good in our scheme but when we lost key pieces he struggled, only guys like Russell Wilson could have made it work last couple games IMO The system was pretty basic WCO and we didn't trust the depth players making it predictable and less explosive and the playcalling was toned down as we simply didn't have the talent to execute The coaches failed to adapt and make adjustments especially in the 2nd half of games We had a pretty tough schedule with lots of travelling which gradually took its toll. I think it was a combination of factors but the good news is I think there are things we can do or have done to make big improvements and I think we'll surprise this year 😀 We should have still been able to beat damn near winless teams and couldn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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