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OROY

pnies20

By pnies20
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SkippyX

SkippyX

Posted
Posted
Just now, Kiwibrown said:

Put down the peace pipe, it a laced with stupid. 

Baker is already better than Dak. 

Better passer, better in the pocket. As good a leader, worse running the ball.

They both had a rookie season so far and Dak moped the floor with Baker.

  • Dak went 13-3 with a 104.9 rating in an 89.3 passer rating league
    • The Cowboys were 4-12 the year before
  • Baker went 6-7 with a 93.7 rating in a 92.9 passer rating league.
    • The Browns were 0-16 the year before

 

I will stop the Zeke carried Dak garbage (in this comparison) before it starts.

  • Baker had Chubb who had 1104 yards from scrimmage and 10 TDs at 5.16 yards per rush during Baker's 13 starts.
  • Duke Johnson had another 562 yards from scrimmage and 3 TDs
  • 1666 yards in 13 games is 128.1 yards from scrimmage and 1 TD per game
  • Zeke 2016 was slightly better at 132.9 yards from scrimmage and 1.07 TDs per game.
  • Carlos Hyde and Alfred Morris were about the same as backup scrubs.

 

Baker had 6 games with 100 rating in 14 attempts.

  • Dak had 11 in 16 attempts.

Dak was a far better rookie passer and leader than Baker. This is a fact

  • Dallas won the lottery when Denver stole Paxton Lynch and they had to settle for Dak in the draft

Baker does have a great shot at having a far better year two though.

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Thomas5737

Thomas5737

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Baker went 6-7

 

14 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Baker had 6 games with 100 rating in 14 attempts

See this looks like you have an agenda. Baker doesn't get credit for a win when he came into a game down 2 TDs but it counts in his games where his rating is over 100.

14 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Baker does have a great shot at having a far better year two though.

Dallas would trade Dak and a 1st for Baker right now. Maybe two 1sts. Not really what this is about though.

Baker was a much more impressive QB as a rookie than Dak. Dak's numbers were better. If OROY is mostly about numbers and it probably is then Dak was better as a rookie and Barkley wins this year.

It's sorta like the draft. One QB could have the best numbers and win the Heisman yet another QB could be the obvious #1 pick in the draft. No one is taking Barkley or Dak over Baker in a draft right now. There may not be 10 players in the whole NFL (considering age) who would go ahead of Baker in a draft right now. Certainly no RB.

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Onizuka

Onizuka

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

They both had a rookie season so far and Dak moped the floor with Baker.

  • Dak went 13-3 with a 104.9 rating in an 89.3 passer rating league
    • The Cowboys were 4-12 the year before
  • Baker went 6-7 with a 93.7 rating in a 92.9 passer rating league.
    • The Browns were 0-16 the year before

 

I will stop the Zeke carried Dak garbage (in this comparison) before it starts.

  • Baker had Chubb who had 1104 yards from scrimmage and 10 TDs at 5.16 yards per rush during Baker's 13 starts.
  • Duke Johnson had another 562 yards from scrimmage and 3 TDs
  • 1666 yards in 13 games is 128.1 yards from scrimmage and 1 TD per game
  • Zeke 2016 was slightly better at 132.9 yards from scrimmage and 1.07 TDs per game.
  • Carlos Hyde and Alfred Morris were about the same as backup scrubs.

 

Baker had 6 games with 100 rating in 14 attempts.

  • Dak had 11 in 16 attempts.

Dak was a far better rookie passer and leader than Baker. This is a fact

  • Dallas won the lottery when Denver stole Paxton Lynch and they had to settle for Dak in the draft

Baker does have a great shot at having a far better year two though.

So basically "throw context out" is what you are saying....

Dak needs his wide receiver to either be completely open or for them to get major YAC for him to rack up passing yards. In his rookie season, they had the best OLINE and a rookie RB who couldn't be stopped, leading to many successful play actions. I live in TX and had to watch most of the cowboy games having a lot of friends as Cowboys fans and I agree that Dak had a great rookie season; but no way did I ever think he was the leader of that team or the most important piece.

Even my friends who for the most part have been huge supporters of Dak don't want him to be extended to a mega deal the Cowboys can't easily get out of. I'm sorry, but you lost all credibility with that one statement of Dak being a better passer and leader then Baker in their rookie seasons. There is absolutely no way  you watched the games Baker started and walked away thinking Dak was a better passer in his rookie season. I can confidently say that Baker is already a better passer then Dak.

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SkippyX

SkippyX

Posted
Posted
Just now, Thomas5737 said:

See this looks like you have an agenda. Baker doesn't get credit for a win when he came into a game down 2 TDs but it counts in his total games.

He had a 100 rating in that game. If I exclude it then he has 5 games of 100 rating in 13 starts.

  • 6 in 14 is better for Baker, right?

If you want to say he was sorta 7-7 last year then I won't object.

  • Foles was 8-2 or 9-2 in 2013 in the same way.

 

You can decide if Dak was 13-2 though, and had 11 games of 100 rating in 15 games because that week 17 was an exhibition game.

  • Dallas @ Philly was an exhibition game 2 years in a row.

 

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Thomas5737

Thomas5737

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Onizuka said:

So basically "throw context out" is what you are saying....

Dak needs his wide receiver to either be completely open or for them to get major YAC for him to rack up passing yards. In his rookie season, they had the best OLINE and a rookie RB who couldn't be stopped, leading to many successful play actions. I live in TX and had to watch most of the cowboy games having a lot of friends as Cowboys fans and I agree that Dak had a great rookie season; but no way did I ever think he was the leader of that team or the most important piece.

Even my friends who for the most part have been huge supporters of Dak don't want him to be extended to a mega deal the Cowboys can't easily get out of. I'm sorry, but you lost all credibility with that one statement of Dak being a better passer and leader then Baker in their rookie seasons. There is absolutely no way  you watched the games Baker started and walked away thinking Dak was a better passer in his rookie season. I can confidently say that Baker is already a better passer then Dak.

Yeah I overlooked the "leader" part. That is hilarious.

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Onizuka

Onizuka

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

 

See this looks like you have an agenda. Baker doesn't get credit for a win when he came into a game down 2 TDs but it counts in his games where his rating is over 100.

Dallas would trade Dak and a 1st for Baker right now. Maybe two 1sts. Not really what this is about though.

Baker was a much more impressive QB as a rookie than Dak. Dak's numbers were better. If OROY is mostly about numbers and it probably is then Dak was better as a rookie and Barkley wins this year.

It's sorta like the draft. One QB could have the best numbers and win the Heisman yet another QB could be the obvious #1 pick in the draft. No one is taking Barkley or Dak over Baker in a draft right now. There may not be 10 players in the whole NFL (considering age) who would go ahead of Baker in a draft right now. Certainly no RB.

Agree, just read some of his prior posts. Mentioned something a long the lines of Baker lead the Browns to 6-7 as a starter, yet conveniently left how the Giants were 5-11 with Barkley starting from day one.

Both had great seasons and I'm still good with either winning OROY award, but discrediting one player for something and not the other.....well then lol

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Thomas5737

Thomas5737

Posted
Posted
Just now, Onizuka said:

Agree, just read some of his prior posts. Mentioned something a long the lines of Baker lead the Browns to 6-7 as a starter, yet conveniently left how the Giants were 5-11 with Barkley starting from day one.

Both had great seasons and I'm still good with either winning OROY award, but discrediting one player for something and not the other.....well then lol

I do understand those who didn't watch Baker and just look at the numbers or highlight may not be as impressed with him but don't go into a debate stating he wasn't as good of a passer or leader as player X. It just makes it hard to continue a discussion.

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SkippyX

SkippyX

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Onizuka said:

So basically "throw context out" is what you are saying....

Dak needs his wide receiver to either be completely open or for them to get major YAC for him to rack up passing yards. In his rookie season, they had the best OLINE and a rookie RB who couldn't be stopped, leading to many successful play actions. I live in TX and had to watch most of the cowboy games having a lot of friends as Cowboys fans and I agree that Dak had a great rookie season; but no way did I ever think he was the leader of that team or the most important piece.

Even my friends who for the most part have been huge supporters of Dak don't want him to be extended to a mega deal the Cowboys can't easily get out of. I'm sorry, but you lost all credibility with that one statement of Dak being a better passer and leader then Baker in their rookie seasons. There is absolutely no way  you watched the games Baker started and walked away thinking Dak was a better passer in his rookie season. I can confidently say that Baker is already a better passer then Dak.

I don't think Dak is a great QB. I hate the Cowboys.

  • As an Eagles fan I would LOVE for Dallas to pay him 27 million a year.

 

He kicked butt as a rookie though and denying it is just delusion.

  • Things like reading defenses or guy has to be open or they all play the run or he only throws short passes is all loser analysis.
    • The idea of football is to move the ball, score points, and win.
      • Dak was AWESOME at that in his rookie year.
  • Even the playoff loss came down to an actual miracle throw and catch from Rodgers to Cook.
    • Dak had 300 yards, a 100+ rating 3 TDs and a pick in a playoff game.

 

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SkippyX

SkippyX

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Posted

You want to dig into how the Oakland game was ref BS and now you can say Baker should have sorta been 8-6 then I will agree with you again.

Stop me when you get to 15 points above league average in passer rating and 13-2.

 

This is a thread about rookies and Dak > Baker as rookies.

Any insult or ridicule against that position is 100% AGENDA

I welcome all the pro-Baker analysis that you have or any anti- rookie Dak analysis that is not 100% eye test or baseless opinion.

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SkippyX

SkippyX

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Posted

I'm not a huge QBR guy but it is another opinion/data point.

  • Dak was 78.8
  • Baker was 55.7

Pro Football Reference AV

  • Dak 16
  • Baker 10

They were both impressive with Game Winning Drives 

  • Baker had 4 in 14 tries.
  • Dak had 5 in 16 tries

They both had very good sack rates for rookies

  • Baker was an excellent 4.9
  • Dak was a very good 5.2
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SkippyX

SkippyX

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Posted

Here is the soft schedule angle on Baker's opponents.

  • You all know this was discussed for Lamar Jackson and they played similar schedules.

Here are the passing yard rankings of Baker's 2018 opponents D:

5,5,9,10,18,19,20,24,26,27,28,31,32,32

Here are the passing TD rankings of Baker's opponents D:

6,6,12,14,17,18,19,22,27,27,29,28,30,32

Here are the passer rating rankings of Baker's opponents D:

2,2,9,11,12,13,14,21,24,25,26,26,29,32

 

The Numbers in BOLD are his 6 games of 100+ rating where he went 4-1(5-1)

  • He beat up the Bengals 2x, the Falcons in Cleveland, the Panthers in Cleveland, Tampa in Tampa, and he had that awesome comeback vs the Jets on a Thursday.
  • He faced 3 really good defenses in Baltimore x2 and the Chargers
    • He was shut down in 2 of the games.
    • He moved the ball well against Baltimore in week 17, but he had 3 picks.
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Thomas5737

Thomas5737

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Posted
49 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

He faced 3 really good defenses in Baltimore x2 and the Chargers

  • He was shut down in 2 of the games.

 

So he was shut down in the game against Baltimore where he threw for 342 yards or 376? Just so I know which game they shut him down. He also had a really bad 1st half against the Texans and didn't do that well against the Steelers or Chargers. No one is saying that Baker was perfect. Barkley had 7 games with less than 50 yards rushing, 7 with less than 4 per carry.

Both had a month where they were rookie of the month. Barkley had seven 100 yard rushing games Baker had seven 250 yard passing games. Barkley is one of three rookies to go over 2k total yards. Baker averaged the most yards per game for a rookie passer. Barkley had 15 TDs and Baker broke the rookie passing TD mark.

It isn't like either player was perfect nor is it debatable if either player was deserving.

 

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