OROY

[iknowcool]

6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Mayfield was brilliant in year one. That's why there is a discussion. Baker and Brady were pretty much the same statistically this year per game. Both were behind Cousins and Fitzpatrick in rating but that doesn't mean they didn't play better than them.

It's hard to say "Brady and Mayfield were pretty much the same statistically" as a way to prop up Mayfield, but then say 2 players that were better than them statistically doesn't mean they were better.

I think it is especially true with QBs nowadays that you can make so many of their numbers, no matter what tier they on, look similar.

QB A (14 games) - 63.7 %, 3035 yards, 20 passing TDs (5.3 TD%), 6 INTs (1.6 INT%), 8.0 Y/A, 99.4 QB Rating, 568 rushing yards, 4 rushing TDs 

QB B (14 games) - 63.8 %, 3725 yards, 27 TDs (5.6 TD%), 14 INTs (2.9 INT%), 7.7 Y/A, 93.7 QB Rating, 131 rushing yards

Hint: Both QBs played for the Browns in 2018.  QB A is Tyrod Taylor in his strongest statistical season, 2015.  QB B is obviously Baker Mayfield.  If someone told you Mayfield at his realistic best would produce a season no better than Tyrod at his best, would you be cool with that?

 

 

[Mega Ron]

37 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

How is anybody underestimating Baker Mayfield by suggesting that at 22 years old (or however old he is), he hasn't played at his absolute best?  

Are you telling me that your #1 overall pick who took over in Week 3 in a game ya'll won, played his absolute best and still couldn't get you to the playoffs because maybe the play-calling wasn't good, and you guys are satisfied with that?  

There were other factors. The zebras ****ed us more than a few times as well.

I don't think he could have played much better.

[iknowcool]

8 minutes ago, Mega Ron said:

There were other factors. The zebras ****ed us more than a few times as well.

I don't think he could have played much better.

I mean, that would still be pretty sad.  Your #1 overall pick playing as good as he ever will and still not being able to take your team to the playoffs because of things that every other team deals with, even if they think it's just their team.

LIS,  you can't argue Mayfield over Barkley because of the value of a QB and also then say Mayfield played as good he as he possibly will in a season where the Browns didn't even make the playoffs.  And let's not act like the Browns aren't talented.

[Mega Ron]

1 minute ago, iknowcool said:

I mean, that would still be pretty sad.  Your #1 overall pick playing as good as he ever will and still not being able to take your team to the playoffs because of things that every other team deals with, even if they think it's just their team.

 

I didn't say he was a good as he ever will be.

But even if that is as good as he will be it'd make him around the top 10 imnaamo.

[Mega Ron]

Just now, Mega Ron said:

I didn't say he was a good as he ever will be.

But even if that is as good as he will be it'd make him around the top 10 imnaamo.

Plus we were ****ed by the refs big time at least a few times. The NFL admitted it pretty much every time. Not that it helps.

[candyman93]

4 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

I mean, that would still be pretty sad.  Your #1 overall pick playing as good as he ever will and still not being able to take your team to the playoffs because of things that every other team deals with, even if they think it's just their team.

LIS,  you can't argue Mayfield over Barkley because of the value of a QB and also then say Mayfield played as good he as he possibly will in a season where the Browns didn't even make the playoffs.  And let's not act like the Browns aren't talented.

Well... they were 0-16 last year.

[iknowcool]

14 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Well... they were 0-16 last year.

So you think the Browns aren't talented enough to go to the playoffs with a QB playing his career best football?

Browns are a talented team.  I'd say talent-wise, they are no different (if not better than) the Panthers or Seahawks.

[iknowcool]

12 minutes ago, Mega Ron said:

I didn't say he was a good as he ever will be.

You literally suggested someone might be underestimating him if they don't agree he realistically can't get much better than he already is.

[Thomas5737]

28 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

You literally suggested someone might be underestimating him if they don't agree he realistically can't get much better than he already is.

He can make better decisions like dawgx said, taking the sure thing and using his legs more. As far as passing, his percentage of passes on target isn't getting much better. He made a really stupid throw on his 3rd pick against the Texans. There was a bad throw against the Chargers that ended in a pick but I really believe that was a bad route. He had a bad throw/decision against the Jets but the db didn't catch it.

Baker could play how he played this year and throw for 35 TD and 6 picks, everything around you isn't going to stay the same.

[Onizuka]

9 hours ago, SkippyX said:

I have already shown you that in Baker's 13 starts  Chubb's/Johnson's production was about 1 TD and 64 yards less over 13 games compared to Zeke 2016.

• Cleveland's backs had slightly better yards per carry and yards per touch.

You are talking about your feelings of not being overly impressed while I clearly demonstrate that they had almost identical RB support.

• Zeke was a great rookie.
• Chubb was a great rookie after he got playing time and Johnson was a stud 3rd down back.

Zeke and Dak got 49 of the 50 OROY votes in 2016... Dak got 28 of those 49.

• You have every right to say you would have voted for Zeke and there is nothing wrong with that
  • Pretending that Dak was a Taylor Hall level pathetic award winner is ignorant

Do 2 rookies on the same team have to steal each other's mojo?

Can Duke have 3 awesome freshman or do we have to pretend 2 of them are bad?

This is the last time I'm going to respond because you clearly just aren't reading what I'm posting; or that you are just too eager to respond to prove your "right" and not understanding what I'm saying.

Dak had a great rookie season, but I'm disagreeing with you that he was a better passer and leader then Mayfield. Reading another one of your posts all you can do is bring up box score stats, which is why I have no idea why I'm wasting my time even explaining, but here it goes. If you actually watched the Browns and Mayfield, he made throws consistently that Dak can't do. Even now, in Dak's 3rd year, he can't make the throws Mayfield was completing every game in his rookie season. You bringing up his overall passing % without actually watching the games is pointless. 

 

Lastly, there is nothing to debate in terms of who the better leader was/is. I don't recall ever hearing/reading/seeing anything about Dak being an amazing leader outside of the cliche "he's the leader of his offense" which defaults to the QB. Mayfield on the other hand has had resounding support from his teammates, coaches, media, etc. about how his personality is infectious and how he truly is a leader among men.

[candyman93]

2 hours ago, iknowcool said:

So you think the Browns aren't talented enough to go to the playoffs with a QB playing his career best football?

Browns are a talented team.  I'd say talent-wise, they are no different (if not better than) the Panthers or Seahawks.

For the record I do agree with you that Baker will play better. I feel another John Dorsey offseason will make them playoff caliber.

[SkippyX]

19 minutes ago, Onizuka said:

This is the last time I'm going to respond because you clearly just aren't reading what I'm posting; or that you are just too eager to respond to prove your "right" and not understanding what I'm saying.

Dak had a great rookie season, but I'm disagreeing with you that he was a better passer and leader then Mayfield. Reading another one of your posts all you can do is bring up box score stats, which is why I have no idea why I'm wasting my time even explaining, but here it goes. If you actually watched the Browns and Mayfield, he made throws consistently that Dak can't do. Even now, in Dak's 3rd year, he can't make the throws Mayfield was completing every game in his rookie season. You bringing up his overall passing % without actually watching the games is pointless. 

 

Lastly, there is nothing to debate in terms of who the better leader was/is. I don't recall ever hearing/reading/seeing anything about Dak being an amazing leader outside of the cliche "he's the leader of his offense" which defaults to the QB. Mayfield on the other hand has had resounding support from his teammates, coaches, media, etc. about how his personality is infectious and how he truly is a leader among men.

And my last response is that you bring up NOTHING to back your claims of Baker being a better passer and leader

My statistics and results are REALITY. Your FEELINGS are not.

• A QB who LEADS his team to 13-3 is a better LEADER than one who goes 7-7 for those specific rookie years.
• A QB who has higher completion %, yards per pass, only a 0.2 lower TD % and lower int% IS A BETTER PASSER!

 

What throws are you pretending that can't Dak make in the NFL? 

Why add specifics when you can just give a lame generalization with no basis in reality.

I found one for you :

• Baker was able to make the throw that the other team returned for a TD while Dak was unable to make that throw as a rookie.

 

Maybe I am just misunderstanding you and you think Baker Mayfield is a 'gifted passer' like Jeff George.

It does not translate on the field in any meaningful way compared to the rest of the league yet but he has all the tools. 

I will take wins and production every day when deciding on OROY.

 

Maybe we just need a Best Prospect With Mediocre Results In Year One But Who Can Make All The Throws award for Baker?

 

[SkippyX]

3 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

For the record I do agree with you that Baker will play better. I feel another John Dorsey offseason will make them playoff caliber.

They could also have 100+ million in cap space depending on how much they carry forward next year.

The Browns job was the best job of all the available coaching vacancies because this team is ready to take the step to the playoffs.

[wackywabbit]

7 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

They could also have 100+ million in cap space depending on how much they carry forward next year.

The Browns job was the best job of all the available coaching vacancies because this team is ready to take the step to the playoffs.

I'll believe it when I see it. The Browns are this offseason's 49ers in terms of hype. But their roster still looks like the 4th best in their division and the perennial insane draft capital is gone. They got to build a team like real franchises now. 

[Mega Ron]

1 minute ago, wackywabbit said:

I'll believe it when I see it. The Browns are this offseason's 49ers.

Only if Baker is injured early on in the season