OROY

[buno67]

25 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I'll believe it when I see it. The Browns are this offseason's 49ers.

The browns have even more cap space than the 49ers had less year and then browns have a lot more younger talent. Also ran by a better GM. 

You could also say Baker is better than jimmy because Baker is on a rookie deal where JimmyG just got paid. 

Browns going into this offseason is a lot better than the 9ers going into the offseason last year

[wackywabbit]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

The browns have even more cap space than the 49ers had less year and then browns have a lot more younger talent. Also ran by a better GM. 

You could also say Baker is better than jimmy because Baker is on a rookie deal where JimmyG just got paid. 

Browns going into this offseason is a lot better than the 9ers going into the offseason last year

I'm not saying they won't turn out better, but from the lens of what the 49ers were talked about going into the off-season Garrappolo was 6-0 and was perceived better than Baker is now. 

It definitely seems like Dorsey is the best GM the browns have had in forever, but let's see what the FO does when it doesn't have multiple top 5 picks. I don't think finding great players at #1 overall is a great achievement, it should be expected.

[DawgX]

1 hour ago, wackywabbit said:

I'll believe it when I see it. The Browns are this offseason's 49ers in terms of hype. But their roster still looks like the 4th best in their division and the perennial insane draft capital is gone. They got to build a team like real franchises now. 

lol

[wackywabbit]

 

6 minutes ago, DawgX said:

lol

I mean... yea

I think it's debatable that the have a better roster than the Bengals, but I'd take the Bengals one for 2020 assuming their stars are healthy.

[buno67]

17 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I'm not saying they won't turn out better, but from the lens of what the 49ers were talked about going into the off-season Garrappolo was 6-0 and was perceived better than Baker is now. 

It definitely seems like Dorsey is the best GM the browns have had in forever, but let's see what the FO does when it doesn't have multiple top 5 picks. I don't think finding great players at #1 overall is a great achievement, it should be expected.

The 9ers only really had Jimmy G in their favor. Browns have a lot more younger talent and cap space than what the 9ers had. 

Also Dorsey did more than just draft Baker and Ward. Also Dorsey got a lot of criticism for his picks when after it was all settled those picks were darn good. Add in how well the other picks in the draft worked out, that’s why their is excitement. 

[wackywabbit]

5 minutes ago, buno67 said:

The 9ers only really had Jimmy G in their favor. Browns have a lot more younger talent and cap space than what the 9ers had. 

Also Dorsey did more than just draft Baker and Ward. Also Dorsey got a lot of criticism for his picks when after it was all settled those picks were darn good. Add in how well the other picks in the draft worked out, that’s why their is excitement. 

I didn't think Baker would be this good. That looks like a very smart pick. But, picking number 1, there was tremendous draft capital spent so that player HAS to be good. Look at what the Colts got just sliding down from 3 to 6, that 1 pick could have been many high draft picks. The same is true for Ward, although there I still think Bradley Chubb is/will be the better and more valuable asset. Even if they took (hypothetically) Darnold and Chubb, that'd be a great pair of building blocks afforded just because of the picks they had.

Nick Chubb was a good pick. That's a better indicator of future success IMO. It shows better evaluation to take a guy everyone else has a shot at.

[buno67]

2 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

I'll believe it when I see it. The Browns are this offseason's 49ers in terms of hype. But their roster still looks like the 4th best in their division and the perennial insane draft capital is gone. They got to build a team like real franchises now. 

So what Dorsey did last year wasn’t building the team like a real franchise? He hit on draft picks, he traded for players, and signed FA.

[wackywabbit]

7 minutes ago, buno67 said:

So what Dorsey did last year wasn’t building the team like a real franchise? He hit on draft picks, he traded for players, and signed FA.

If you a contender, you aren't going to have the #1 and #4 overall pick and the first and 3rd pick in the second round, every year. Is ANY there a mock draft from last offseason where there AREN'T 2 or more players  from those 4 picks that look like major building blocks right now?

Is that a hot take?

[pnies20]

1 minute ago, wackywabbit said:

If you a contender, you aren't going to have the #1 and #4 overall pick and the first and 3rd pick in the second round, every year.

Is that a hot take?

They pick 17th. Just an FYI.

[buno67]

2 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

If you a contender, you aren't going to have the #1 and #4 overall pick and the first and 3rd pick in the second round, every year.

Is that a hot take?

Yea but a contender will turn late round picks into starters or trade players into other starters. Weird Dorsey built KC, so it’s like he knows what he is doing. 

[wackywabbit]

7 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Yea but a contender will turn late round picks into starters or trade players into other starters. Weird Dorsey built KC, so it’s like he knows what he is doing. 

Basically, that's what he has to do. Let's see if it happens in Cleveland. 

I don't know about that "built KC" assessment. Everyone may be speculating, but the reports are that he wasn't on board with the Mahommes selection, and that was Reid and the new GM.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

Basically, that's what he has to do. Let's see if it happens in Cleveland. 

I don't know about that "built KC" assessment. Everyone may be speculating, but the reports are that he wasn't on board with the Mahommes selection, and that was Reid and the new GM.

Interesting.  You don’t know if it’s actually true, but you’re willing to go with it because it serves a purpose...

Dorsey took over a team that was drafting first overall (although did have a decent amount of talent) and a year after he’s gone they’re in the Super Bowl (and steadily progressed to that point he whole time he was there).

Is he solely responsible for it?  Of course not.  But, as the GM it’s pretty clear he played a large role in it.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

As far as people doubting the Browns next year, I’m cool with it.

We’ve been awful for 2 decades, so I don’t expect the benefit of the doubt.  

That said, I’m assuming most of the folks commenting on what Baker was and wasn’t doing didn’t actually watch him play much.  A game, maybe a couple. Perhaps when Hue was still messing things up.

I’m pretty confident in saying anyone who watched Baker’s whole season and ascension after Hue was axed would be pretty bullish on his long term prospects.  

[Onizuka]

8 hours ago, SkippyX said:

And my last response is that you bring up NOTHING to back your claims of Baker being a better passer and leader

My statistics and results are REALITY. Your FEELINGS are not.

• A QB who LEADS his team to 13-3 is a better LEADER than one who goes 7-7 for those specific rookie years.
• A QB who has higher completion %, yards per pass, only a 0.2 lower TD % and lower int% IS A BETTER PASSER!

 

What throws are you pretending that can't Dak make in the NFL? 

Why add specifics when you can just give a lame generalization with no basis in reality.

I found one for you :

• Baker was able to make the throw that the other team returned for a TD while Dak was unable to make that throw as a rookie.

 

Maybe I am just misunderstanding you and you think Baker Mayfield is a 'gifted passer' like Jeff George.

It does not translate on the field in any meaningful way compared to the rest of the league yet but he has all the tools. 

I will take wins and production every day when deciding on OROY.

 

Maybe we just need a Best Prospect With Mediocre Results In Year One But Who Can Make All The Throws award for Baker?

 

Alright....now this will be my last time. Why do you keep bringing my feelings? When I said, I felt that Dak never showed me he was a QB that could take a team to the next level, as in, nothing more than a game manager type QB; that was me stating my opinion. I'm not trying to be like you that just think stats tell the whole story and think you can change people's opinions when you've clearly proven you did not watch the Browns games this year.

Do you not understand what watching the games means? You could sit here on all the stats you want, but there is a reason I guarantee you every single team who needs a QB would rather have Mayfield over Dak just watching their rookie seasons.

I'm seriously done because you've proven that you truly are nothing more than box score stats. Seriously, there are times the greats have bad to mediocre stats but watching the game you could tell that they kept their team in there all game. That is what Mayfield has shown in his rookie season. Dak in his 3 seasons has not shown he can beat a team with his arm when they are able to shut the running game down and force him to have to make those tight throws.

Respond all you want, I'm done. Just an FYI, you can't really debate someone's opinion when you don't watch the games and just do nothing but spout empty box scores.

[Vee-Rex]

23 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

 

Nick Chubb was a good pick. That's a better indicator of future success IMO. It shows better evaluation to take a guy everyone else has a shot at.

Nick Chubb was a terrific pick. Baker Mayfield was a terrific pick. Denzel Ward was a terrific pick. Genard Avery is a starter and had a good rookie season. Antonio Callaway, while a rough start, finished out pretty strong and had a good rookie season. And it's not just the draft:

Trading a 4th rounder for Jarvis Landry was a good move. Trading DeShone Kizer for Damarious Randall was a STEAL. Trading Carlos Hyde was a good move. Trading Josh Gordon turned out to be a good move. Signing Terrence Mitchell was a solid move (too bad he got injured). Signing Greg Robinson, who somewhat revived his career, was a good move.

Firing Hue and Haley was a GOOD move.

While Dorsey hasn't gotten every move right, the amount of moves he DID get right sparked a significant turnaround season for the Browns. Given his history with the Chiefs, why shouldn't we assume the Browns will improve more in the offseason with a ton of picks (that can be used to trade up) and a ton of cap space?