DawgX Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Isn’t that the fan vote one? Meh... No, it's the AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, DawgX said: No, it's the AP. I was thinking of the Pepsi one... What the hell is the difference between AP and PFWA? Aren’t they the same dudes?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 48 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: 52 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Well the only one left is the only one anyone cares about, for whatever reason they care about it. Isn’t that the fan vote one? Meh... No it's the one voted on by the 50 people who vote MVP, All-Pro and such. It either comes out pro-bowl weekend or SB weekend. It's the only official NFL rookie award (I think). Obviously it is between Baker and Barkley but the same guys (and girls maybe) voted Nelson first team all-pro so maybe he has a chance. Baker already won one fan voted award, not sure if that was the Pepsi one or another one. He'd probably win all fan voted awards. Mostly because Browns fans vote but also because he is Baker freaking Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Mayfield is not the OROY. Don't look at his passer rating. Look at it in the context of 2018. He was the 19th rated passer and he was 6-7. He took the league by storm by finishing behind Derek Carr in passer rating! Good for him, but not OROY Barkley had a better year than Elliot at RB. #1 in yards from scrimmage 3rd in total TDs 5.0 yards per carry (T-2 out of all 1000 yard backs) Quenton Nelson was an absolute monster who transformed the Colts O-line. Chubb, Lindsay, or Mayfield could have all possibly been the OROY if they played all 16 games, but they did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: Look at it in the context of 2018. He was the 19th rated passer and he was 6-7. I stopped right there. First you say, "look at it in the context of 2018" and then go on to note his team record. A TEAM record of 6-7 on a team who has won 4 total games in the last 3 years while the guy you are clamoring for OROY (Barkley) had a team record of 5-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: Mayfield is not the OROY. Don't look at his passer rating. Look at it in the context of 2018. He was the 19th rated passer and he was 6-7. He took the league by storm by finishing behind Derek Carr in passer rating! Good for him, but not OROY Barkley had a better year than Elliot at RB. #1 in yards from scrimmage 3rd in total TDs 5.0 yards per carry (T-2 out of all 1000 yard backs) Quenton Nelson was an absolute monster who transformed the Colts O-line. Chubb, Lindsay, or Mayfield could have all possibly been the OROY if they played all 16 games, but they did not. Yeah if volume is everything it is Barkley. He was 5th in yards per carry among rookie running backs. He was second in the NFL in touches though so he has all of the bulk stats. He also has a lot of highlight reel plays, which will grab some votes. He had a huge amount of little to no gain plays also, those don't make the highlights though. Be prepared in case Baker wins it though, some that vote will see what he did as more impressive than what Barkley did. If it is bulk stats it is Barkley. If it was most impressive performance it will be Baker. I can't see it being Nelson but I also don't completely rule it out but it would be a huge longshot. If I put money on it I would say Baker wins it though. I think it will be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex_Gen Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I love me some Baker but the only leg up he has in this race is that he plays the most important position in football. The unquestioned OROY should be Barkley. It would be a cop out if he doesnt get it, given he's already a top 5 player at his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, Nex_Gen said: I love me some Baker but the only leg up he has in this race is that he plays the most important position in football. The unquestioned OROY should be Barkley. It would be a cop out if he doesnt get it, given he's already a top 5 player at his position. Yeah but that happens every year. Happened a couple times last year. It's good and all but whether it's Kamara, Hunt, Zeke, Gurley, whoever there is always a rookie RB who is among the games best. Mayfield averaged the most passing yards per game for a rookie ever, broke the rookie passing TD record and looked much better than his stats indicate. If you compare rookie QBs against each other and rookie RBs against each other there is a bigger gap with QBs. It has a much tougher learning curve. Pretty much every rookie RB is plug and play. If you go league wide position vs position Barkley has the advantage. You can say Barkley deserves it more and I'm cool with that. To think Baker shouldn't be considered but is only because he is a QB is just wrong, it was possibly the best passing of any rookie QB ever. Before the season started Browns were 80-1 odds to make the SB this year and are 30-1 for next year. Giants were 30-1 this year and 40-1 next year. I don't know If you can ignore that kind of impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilflamingo Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: Before the season started Browns were 80-1 odds to make the SB this year and are 30-1 for next year. Giants were 30-1 this year and 40-1 next year. I don't know If you can ignore that kind of impact. Yes, let's give awards based on future projections? To me, there's no question, this title belongs to Barkley and the gap to Baker should be substantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 10:51 PM, SkippyX said: Mayfield is not the OROY. Don't look at his passer rating. Look at it in the context of 2018. He was the 19th rated passer and he was 6-7. He took the league by storm by finishing behind Derek Carr in passer rating! Good for him, but not OROY Barkley had a better year than Elliot at RB. #1 in yards from scrimmage 3rd in total TDs 5.0 yards per carry (T-2 out of all 1000 yard backs) Quenton Nelson was an absolute monster who transformed the Colts O-line. Chubb, Lindsay, or Mayfield could have all possibly been the OROY if they played all 16 games, but they did not. That’s why you don’t Draft a RB when their is legit QB talent, when you need a QB. I kinda hope the Giants don’t find a QB for awhile... barkley had a great season and only helped the team win 5 games. Baker played less games and won more games. Baker transformed the team, Barkley did not. Also Baker wasn’t 6-7, he gets credit for beating the Jets not Tyrod Baker won all 7 games for the Browns this year Heck if Chubb played the whole season, he could have been the best rookie RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Yeah if volume is everything it is Barkley. He was 5th in yards per carry among rookie running backs. He was second in the NFL in touches though so he has all of the bulk stats. He also has a lot of highlight reel plays, which will grab some votes. He had a huge amount of little to no gain plays also, those don't make the highlights though. Be prepared in case Baker wins it though, some that vote will see what he did as more impressive than what Barkley did. If it is bulk stats it is Barkley. If it was most impressive performance it will be Baker. I can't see it being Nelson but I also don't completely rule it out but it would be a huge longshot. If I put money on it I would say Baker wins it though. I think it will be close. The voters are not what I would call deep thinkers, so Baker will run away with the award. All the bad mojo about Cleveland also applies to that Giants O-line and Barkley was fantastic. Baker had a very good year and Browns fans should be thrilled. Barkley is OROY based on production and his rankings compared to all other NFL runners, not just rookies. We can compare Barkley to 2015 Gurley or 2016 Zeke later. (I expect Zeke to have better numbers) I agree that Nelson has ZERO shot, but he was fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, SkippyX said: The voters are not what I would call deep thinkers, so Baker will run away with the award. (I assume you meant Barkley) Same 50 voters who vote for the MVP, All-Pro and all of the major awards. This is last years list but I imagine there won't be many differences. These were the 50 MVP voters for the 2017 season: Eric Adelson, Yahoo: @eric_adelson Troy Aikman, Fox: @TroyAikman Hub Arkush, Westwood One: @Hub_Arkush Howard Balzer, Pro Football Hall of Fame: @HBalzer721 Don Banks, Bleacher Report: @DonBanks Jarrett Bell, USA Today: @JarrettBell Andy Benoit, The MMQB: @Andy_Benoit Ron Borges, Boston Herald: @RonBorges Vic Carucci, Buffalo News: @viccarucci John Clayton, ESPN: @ClaytonESPN Steve Cohen, Sirius XM: @CohenNFL Cris Collinsworth, NBC: @Collinsworthpff Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune: @markcraignfl Tom Curran, Comcast Sports Net: @tomecurran John Czarnecki, Fox Sports Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News: @pdomo Tony Dungy, NBC: @TonyDungy Boomer Esiason, CBS: @7BOOMERESIASON Rich Gannon, CBS: @RichGannon12 Fred Gaudelli, NBC: @NBCSNF Bob Glauber, Newsday: @BobGlauber Rick Gosselin, Talk of Fame Network: @RickGosselin9 Rodney Harrison, NBC: @Rodney_Harrison Lindsay Jones, USA Today: @bylindsayhjones Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network: @ClarkJudgeTOF Ira Kaufman, SB Nation Radio: @IKaufman76 Peter King, The MMQB: @SI_PeterKing Pat Kirwan, Sirius XM: @PatKirwanrfn Suzy Kolber, ESPN: @SuzyKolber Jeff Legwold, ESPN: @Jeff_Legwold James Lofton, CBS: @lofton80 Alex Marvez, The Sporting News: @alexmarvez John McClain, Houston Chronicle: @McLain_on_NFL Jim Miller, Sirius XM Chris Mortensen, ESPN: @mortreport Bruce Murray, Sirius XM Gary Myers, New York Daily News: @garymyersNYDN Nick Pavlatos, Sirius XM: @nflradionick Bill Polian, ESPN Dan Pompei, Bleacher Report: @danpompei Pete Prisco, CBS: @PriscoCBS Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today: @LorenzoGReyes Tim Ryan, Fox: @TimRyan99 Armando Salguero, Miami Herald: @ArmandoSalguero Adam Schein, Showtime/CBS: @AdamSchein Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: @TomSilverstein David Steele, Sporting News: @David_C_Steele Mike Tirico, NBC: @miketirico Jenny Vrentas, The MMQB: @JennyVrentas Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk: @NFLCharean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I meant Baker because of the hype. The list does look like it has changed quite a bit from the past. I only see a few bad apples there in Borges (a real scumbag, look him up), Prisco (old-school idiot) and King (great sources, horrible conclusions) There is still a group of leftover 80s-90s guys like Don Banks but 4 women and 9 former players is a nice change to see. Armando Salguero is an American treasure. Read about his Kaepernick interview over Castro. He should have gotten an award for that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohnson2009 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/5/2019 at 11:40 AM, bigjohnson2009 said: I’ve stated that I prefer Barkley in this debate simply because results matter and Baker suffered from an incompetent coach not using him and later using him poorly. I’m really bothered that some posters don’t realize a RB being one of the better RBs in the league their rookie season is normal. RBs production is directly correlated with their age and they benefit pretty much nothing from experience. A rookie stud should come in and out produce 5-10 year veterans. Discounting Baker for being top 10-15 at the position as a PASSER (running as a QB rarely has much longevity in the NFL) is an amazing accomplishment at a position where experience is so important. It’s apples to oranges comparing a QB to veteran peers vs a RB to veteran peers. Bumping this because more people want to talk about how being a top RB as a rookie is comparable to being a top QB as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 The attempts to discredit any of these three (Baker/Quinton/Saquon) is ridiculous. All three are deserving and it all depends on how the committee views the award. Stats: Barkley Impact: Baker Snap by snap grade: Nelson I'd honestly probably give the award to the best statistical rookie (Saquon), but that's because that's how I understand the award to be. The award SHOULD be the most impactful rookie, which would be a landslide victory for Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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