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#1 pick - who do the Cardinals draft?

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12 minutes ago, Forge said:

That's the other half of my conundrum with what to do at #2 LOL. I think Allen plays SAM on early downs, then comes in on the edge on passing downs. I think that they would use him in both spots. 

Basically a situational pass rusher.  If I can't get the three down Leo with Bosa I would just take the BPA.

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1 minute ago, Swift21 said:

Basically a situational pass rusher.  If I can't get the three down Leo with Bosa I would just take the BPA.

I'm sure they would use him as a blitzer from the SAM spot on some plays (though we don't blitz much) and he'd be on the field all the time, but yeah, I don't think he's playing leo full time. He could though. What do I know? I'm just taking my best crack at it lol

I'll be really curious to see what they do. I wouldn't hate taking Allen or Williams as I do understand the impetus for selecting both. Just curious to see how the FO thinks about it. 

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Posted (edited)

To answer your question @Forge Williams at the 1 technique is fine for me. I see no reason as to why he wouldn’t succeed there. Clip after clip was produced this year of him splitting doubles and putting individual blockers on skates back into the QB and/or RB. Then there’s the moments of him beating the help with his quickness,  meaning he’s already past the LOS and working on getting around the initial OL before the second OL even gets in position to help. Williams has the strength, quickness and recognition skills to defeat double teams and win anywhere a long the defensive line in my book. Shoot, I think he could cause some havoc and make plays from the big end position as well in our 4-3 under scheme. We are talking about one of those players who succeeds no matter where he’s playing. It’s not going to be every play and some positions may place him in better position to make those impact plays more often but he’s gonna eat no matter where he is on the LOS in my eyes.

Him and Buckner on the inside together, again I don’t care where they are lining up, are causing head aches for defenses. One gets doubled the other one is probably making a play, both get doubled and I’m pretty sure who ever is lining up at LB for us are going to have a very productive years. That’s a lot of disruption right in the middle of every play. 

The 49ers defense lacks splash play guys. Some guys who can do what’s asked of them well enough, others who are average or just below that. Where ever we can add a player who’s capable of turning momentum, or going above what’s asked of him, make a difference on any play not just the ones they luck into, that’s what we need. Williams I feel can do that, along with Bosa and Allen. Sure, we’ve used a lot of 1sts on IDL over past handful of years and while the staff may have to take a hit to our ego that fact will be little talked about if Williams becomes what we all think we will become in the NFL. They’ll just be talking about the duo of Williams and Buckner. Armstead is more than likely gone after this year anyways and Thomas provides some depth if not grows to start with Buck and Williams, maybe not what he was drafted or intended for but my thinking is you don’t pass up on a player capable of winning you games because of pride and stubbornness.

In regards to Allen, I’ll take a player with his work ethic, skills and abilities and positional flexibility everyday of the week. Not to mention at a position of dire need. We have no SAM LB depth to speak of nor any one who should see the field other than on STs. Line him up there on base downs or early downs, and let him pin his ears back on passing downs at LEO. Who’s to say he can’t do that from the SAM position anyways? Defenses play more nickel and sub packages anyhow now a days obviously, he’ll be lined up with his hand in the dirt more often than not regardless of his position title. The man had 14 sacks dropping into coverage this year WAY too often (and looked good doing it), that in itself is extremely impressive. Again, another player who can play multiple positions and have a positive affect on the game for us. 

Edited by Fureys49ers

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Really surprised by the responses to Williams as a one tech, really didn't expect that, but I hadn't thought about it until @SFrush brought it up. I'm still not loving the idea, but seems I'm the only one thinking that way. 

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7 hours ago, Forge said:

Read the other part of the post I edited after. 

As the one tech, he's going to see more doubles, something he's not going to have the easiest time of at his size. Even Buck struggles on doubles. He'd get washed in the run game and either be a liability or a rotational player.

I want nothing to do with Williams as a one tech. It'd be just like putting Solly at the five.

I'd be curious to here other's thoughts on him as a one, but I just see that as a bad fit and a waste

@Ozzy, @Fureys49ers @CWood21 @BleedTheClock

What say you? Q Williams as a one tech in 43 under?

Sure he could play there. I think his best fit is as a 2H or a 3-Tech.

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8 hours ago, Forge said:

Read the other part of the post I edited after. 

As the one tech, he's going to see more doubles, something he's not going to have the easiest time of at his size. Even Buck struggles on doubles. He'd get washed in the run game and either be a liability or a rotational player.

I want nothing to do with Williams as a one tech. It'd be just like putting Solly at the five.

I'd be curious to here other's thoughts on him as a one, but I just see that as a bad fit and a waste

@Ozzy, @Fureys49ers @CWood21 @BleedTheClock

What say you? Q Williams as a one tech in 43 under?

I don't see why not, Quinnen Williams is a penetrating DT who could play in a 3/4 or 4/3 and play a number of different positions.  Heck he could be a DE in a 3/4 easily, the guy gets off blocks and can rush the passer or stop the run by penetration he gets.  The Cardinals to me will either take him or Bosa, depends on how much they like or dislike Golden I think, if they dislike him and want to move on they take Bosa to team up with Jones on the other end and become more of a standard 4/3 defense.  One could argue getting talented DT help is a bigger need for that team though and that roster, it is a weakspot for them.  Regardless Quinnen is a rare DT talent and has had a monster season, sure there is risk with him but risk also with Bosa coming off the injury like any other player.  Every good DL gets doubled teamed from time to time, you get off it by using good technique and knowing how to use your hands and have multiple moves, there is nothing about Quinnen that says he cannot do that, if anything he is all ready showing that type of ability.

As for Williams weight, not sure how you think that massive man is only 280 pounds?  The guy is well put together and has tree trunk arms, if he comes in at a little under 300 pounds so what if he gets penetration like that consistently.  Only issue would be is his production because of the talent around him which opens him up on Alabama?  But same could be said for a lot of the guys on Clemson as well.  

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2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Sure he could play there. I think his best fit is as a 2H or a 3-Tech.

Wouldn't you think they would do all they can to put him in the best position to be successful early? Putting him at 1 tech would be counter productive to his skill set. Now Dexter Lawrence or Derek Brown at 1 tech is a different story

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13 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Wouldn't you think they would do all they can to put him in the best position to be successful early? Putting him at 1 tech would be counter productive to his skill set. Now Dexter Lawrence or Derek Brown at 1 tech is a different story

I find it much harder to double team a 1-Tech in a 4-3 under scheme than it is in a traditional 4-3 setup. But yeah, he is definitely at his best avoiding doubles and caving in the face of his individual matchups. He's absolutely athletic enough to play 5-Tech or 3-Tech, so that would be where I would start him, not at NT. He's not a gap player at his best. He's a stack & shed player at his best. Keep him away from doubles and let him beat the crap out of guards.

The more I think about it, playing 3-Tech on the weak side is the best spot for him. So I like the idea of him playing in an under front, but not on the front side. Let him kill the backside guard with no threat of a down block from the tackle & tight end.

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Q. Wms is talented, but I do not want the 9ers to take another interior D lineman at all. Especially in the 1st round. Doesn't matter who the guy is, we have a logjam at that position in a huge way. Yet we are so needy in the way of outside pass rush it's hilarious...if it wasn't so painful. I would take Allen over Wms every day, every opportunity. Would I rather have Bosa? Sure, but if he isn't available, I want the next best EDGE pass rusher. The talent we have at EDGE now is nearly pathetic. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Q. Wms is talented, but I do not want the 9ers to take another interior D lineman at all. Especially in the 1st round. Doesn't matter who the guy is, we have a logjam at that position in a huge way. Yet we are so needy in the way of outside pass rush it's hilarious...if it wasn't so painful. I would take Allen over Wms every day, every opportunity. Would I rather have Bosa? Sure, but if he isn't available, I want the next best EDGE pass rusher. The talent we have at EDGE now is nearly pathetic. 

Taking need over BPA is how you end up making a mistake.

Edited by Hopper15

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6 minutes ago, Hopper15 said:

Taking need over BPA is how you end up making a mistake.

Not always the case. McG certainly wasn't the#9 player last year. Depends on your level of reach.

Don't take Tyson alualu in the top 10 😂😂😂

That being said, I'm actually perfectly okay with Williams or someone like Allen at 2. Just more or less curious about the thought process. I don't love the 1 tech idea, but I'm clearly thoroughly out gunned in my belief on this, so if that is what we choose to do and how we choose to deploy him, I'm going to assume that everyone just knows more than me in this situation :D

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Posted (edited)

Honestly, if I'm SF, I trade up to 1.1 to get Bosa, and meet the 'Zona asking price.   He solves your problem right away, and paired with another good CB to go with Witherspoon, that's the foundation of a really upgraded D.      Being that's it's a generational talent, I could see something like 1.1 and 2020 2nd from ARI for 1.2, 3.3, 4.3 and 2020's 1st (with SF gambling that their 2020 1st will only be in the mid-teens worst, and if they make playoffs, then it's even a lower tradeoff in value - I think we can all see ARI is likely still a bottom 5 team next year).

The reason for ARI to trade down from 1.1 to 1.2 - that pick then becomes very plausible for a team to lock in Haskins, so a 2nd trade down becomes very plausible.  Now, if OAK keeps Carr, 1.2 is likely still too high - but if OAK & Haskins gets enough heat, then moving up to 1.2 is the only way to ensure they (or NYG/JAX) gets him - and we know GM Gettleman is a guy who's not afraid to move up to get his guy.   SF making the big piece the 2020 1st upgrade also ensures ARI doesn't get better as quickly, so the trade-back isn't a huge gap.

As much as I don't see Haskins being the 1.1 target, but Bosa, anytime after that, yeah, Haskins is in play.   Trading from 1.1 to 1.2 would allow ARI to triple up on moving down.  None of this happens until after the Combine and team visits, but it's fun to speculate...

Edited by Broncofan

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19 minutes ago, Hopper15 said:

Taking need over BPA is how you end up making a mistake.

As I said, we have NO outside rush. Williams isn't going to fix that. Taking him would be the mistake, IMO. 

There are times when need is the smarter pick than BPA and the 9ers are in such a situation.

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8 hours ago, Fureys49ers said:

To answer your question @Forge Williams at the 1 technique is fine for me. I see no reason as to why he wouldn’t succeed there. Clip after clip was produced this year of him splitting doubles and putting individual blockers on skates back into the QB and/or RB. Then there’s the moments of him beating the help with his quickness,  meaning he’s already past the LOS and working on getting around the initial OL before the second OL even gets in position to help. Williams has the strength, quickness and recognition skills to defeat double teams and win anywhere a long the defensive line in my book. Shoot, I think he could cause some havoc and make plays from the big end position as well in our 4-3 under scheme. We are talking about one of those players who succeeds no matter where he’s playing. It’s not going to be every play and some positions may place him in better position to make those impact plays more often but he’s gonna eat no matter where he is on the LOS in my eyes.

Him and Buckner on the inside together, again I don’t care where they are lining up, are causing head aches for defenses. One gets doubled the other one is probably making a play, both get doubled and I’m pretty sure who ever is lining up at LB for us are going to have a very productive years. That’s a lot of disruption right in the middle of every play. 

The 49ers defense lacks splash play guys. Some guys who can do what’s asked of them well enough, others who are average or just below that. Where ever we can add a player who’s capable of turning momentum, or going above what’s asked of him, make a difference on any play not just the ones they luck into, that’s what we need. Williams I feel can do that, along with Bosa and Allen. Sure, we’ve used a lot of 1sts on IDL over past handful of years and while the staff may have to take a hit to our ego that fact will be little talked about if Williams becomes what we all think we will become in the NFL. They’ll just be talking about the duo of Williams and Buckner. Armstead is more than likely gone after this year anyways and Thomas provides some depth if not grows to start with Buck and Williams, maybe not what he was drafted or intended for but my thinking is you don’t pass up on a player capable of winning you games because of pride and stubbornness.

In regards to Allen, I’ll take a player with his work ethic, skills and abilities and positional flexibility everyday of the week. Not to mention at a position of dire need. We have no SAM LB depth to speak of nor any one who should see the field other than on STs. Line him up there on base downs or early downs, and let him pin his ears back on passing downs at LEO. Who’s to say he can’t do that from the SAM position anyways? Defenses play more nickel and sub packages anyhow now a days obviously, he’ll be lined up with his hand in the dirt more often than not regardless of his position title. The man had 14 sacks dropping into coverage this year WAY too often (and looked good doing it), that in itself is extremely impressive. Again, another player who can play multiple positions and have a positive affect on the game for us. 

In most cases you can get by with just average play from your SAM LB (partly because of the reason you listed) with how much defenses are in nickel and sub packages though. 

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5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Honestly, if I'm SF, I trade up to 1.1 to get Bosa, and meet the 'Zona asking price.   He solves your problem right away, and paired with another good CB to go with Witherspoon, that's the foundation of a really upgraded D.      Being that's it's a generational talent, I could see something like 1.1 and 2020 2nd from ARI for 1.2, 3.3, 4.3 and 2020's 1st (with SF gambling that their 2020 1st will only be in the mid-teens worst, and if they make playoffs, then it's even a lower tradeoff in value - I think we can all see ARI is likely still a bottom 5 team next year).

Don't hate the idea. Not sure I love giving up so many pieces to this draft in the move (We are picking in the top 2 after all, even though it was at least somewhat due to Jimmy being hurt), but I can get behind this idea if we spend and sign some quality free agents.  Sign a Mosely / Hicks / Barr / etc to fill in the linebacker corps,  a quality free safety (looking at you ET!), and some depth pieces, I think it would be a quality team. Not impossible with all the cap room, but lots of teams have cap room, so not easy

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