ReadyToThump Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 14 hours ago, Malfatron said: Aaron Rodgers at 6 really surprises me. did other QB really suck or something? I fully expected for Goff and Wilson to be ahead of him on this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 14 hours ago, Malfatron said: Aaron Rodgers at 6 really surprises me. did other QB really suck or something? Andy Dalton is 12th, so yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: Obv Lamar and Mitch don’t deserve to be that low, PFF is just trying to prove a point, they are average at best (probably below average) QB’s getting too much hype on good teams. The list outside of that isn’t all that bad really. MT10 is just below Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Luck (less than 3 points separated the 4) in traditional QB rating. He's 4th overall in QBR behind only Brees, Mahomes, and Roethlisberger. His comp% is top half of the league, his TD% is top 10. His Agg% is top 5. He is one of the most accurate QBs on the run. He is top 10 on 3rd down and last I checked, top rated passer under pressure (after being the worst following the first 3 games). There is no measure by which you can say he is average let alone below average. Their rating of him is purely agenda driven. Before the start of the season they put out a video where one of there guys said Chase Daniel was going to win the starting job. They justify their rating using some mystical big time throw rating, which he is ahead of 10 guys listed before him on that score alone. It's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I've said this countless times, but PFF's player rankings are really subjective and often questionable. This list looks fine at the very top, but beyond that it's just hard to comprehend. I mean, they release player rankings so soon after the game - before the All 22 is even available - so that you know they're relying solely on the TV broadcast to make player rankings. And to do that with any credibility is impossible. Their more objective stats like time-to-throw, time-to-sack, etc. were very helpful when they were more affordable. But then they made them inaccessible, and now they are super expensive, so **** them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Yeah this list is a complete joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footbull3196 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: Idk if MT10 slept with somebody's sister/mom, kicked a pet, or what but this is the definition of an agenda. There is no objective or subjective measure that you can say Trubisky was the 30th best QB in the league. This has to be the dumbest thing I've seen written. If this was earlier in the season I’d be inclined to disagree with you but at this point in time the progress that he’s made is clearly evident. Obviously trubisky was better than guys like Case Keenum, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, Eli Manning for starters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckweath Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: MT10 is just below Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Luck (less than 3 points separated the 4) in traditional QB rating. He's 4th overall in QBR behind only Brees, Mahomes, and Roethlisberger. His comp% is top half of the league, his TD% is top 10. His Agg% is top 5. He is one of the most accurate QBs on the run. He is top 10 on 3rd down and last I checked, top rated passer under pressure (after being the worst following the first 3 games). There is no measure by which you can say he is average let alone below average. Their rating of him is purely agenda driven. Before the start of the season they put out a video where one of there guys said Chase Daniel was going to win the starting job. They justify their rating using some mystical big time throw rating, which he is ahead of 10 guys listed before him on that score alone. It's a joke. I am sorry but I have watched him play this season and he is an average to below average QB. It is not entirely out of question that he becomes a top 10 QB but it is unlikely as he is not even a top 5 QBs of the wave of young new QBs. They are not exactly identical but Alex Smith is a good comparison IMO on the level of play that I expect from Trubisky now and moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Buckweath said: I am sorry but I have watched him play this season and he is an average to below average QB. It is not entirely out of question that he becomes a top 10 QB but it is unlikely as he is not even a top 5 QBs of the wave of young new QBs. They are not exactly identical but Alex Smith is a good comparison IMO on the level of play that I expect from Trubisky now and moving forward. All of the numbers and the experts that actually watch tape and break it down disagree with you. But keep up with the narrative. He just went 8/14 on 3rd down against the leagues best 3rd down defense in their building WITHOUT HIS TOP 3 WRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckweath Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said: All of the numbers and the experts that actually watch tape and break it down disagree with you. But keep up with the narrative. He just went 8/14 on 3rd down against the leagues best 3rd down defense in their building WITHOUT HIS TOP 3 WRS. Lol here I am going on Twitter just curious to see what people have to say about Trubisky and I find multiple posts saying he is the worst QB in the playoffs. I don't agree with that but I don't think you are actually objective in your assessment of Trubisky. He is really nothing special to me but still decent. Average to below average QB right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: MT10 is just below Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Luck (less than 3 points separated the 4) in traditional QB rating. He's 4th overall in QBR behind only Brees, Mahomes, and Roethlisberger. His comp% is top half of the league, his TD% is top 10. His Agg% is top 5. He is one of the most accurate QBs on the run. He is top 10 on 3rd down and last I checked, top rated passer under pressure (after being the worst following the first 3 games). There is no measure by which you can say he is average let alone below average. Their rating of him is purely agenda driven. Before the start of the season they put out a video where one of there guys said Chase Daniel was going to win the starting job. They justify their rating using some mystical big time throw rating, which he is ahead of 10 guys listed before him on that score alone. It's a joke. I wonder if Chase Daniel would actually be an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 hours ago, childofpudding said: I've said this countless times, but PFF's player rankings are really subjective and often questionable. This list looks fine at the very top, but beyond that it's just hard to comprehend. I mean, they release player rankings so soon after the game - before the All 22 is even available - so that you know they're relying solely on the TV broadcast to make player rankings. And to do that with any credibility is impossible. Their more objective stats like time-to-throw, time-to-sack, etc. were very helpful when they were more affordable. But then they made them inaccessible, and now they are super expensive, so **** them. To be fair, Neil Hornsby and crew did have their system in place long before All 22 was available. That is how they rose to prominence before. I forget how, but it was explained a while back on a podcast how he came up with the approach before 2006 when the company went public. Something along the lines of having to meticulously keep track of every player when doing a game review by following things like sock color, gloves on the player, etc. Even with players out of frame, there were tendencies that would give a good level of accuracy. Usually took 8 plus hours for one person to finish a game grading every player on every snap. Now, they can all do it much faster. How they do it so soon after a game though I don't know. I think the initial grades are preliminary, and subject to change in the week following peer and All 22 review. Here is a pretty good, I think objective article from the Chief's SB nation site regarding PFF. It's a few years back. https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/3/3/8134847/inside-the-numbers-for-the-kansas-city-chiefs-understanding-pff-grades I think their grading system has slightly changed since then though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I'm sorry, but any list that has Case Keenum any higher than 30th is clearly flawed. As much as Trubisky struggled in key moments, we'd kill to have Trubisky's potential over Keenum's complete ineptitude. Now, on a more serious note - keep in mind that PFF's other flaw besides the assumption that the evaluations being done are uniformly applied - they do not take into account the competition faced. They assume the opposition is equal. That would definitely account for some of the variance we're seeing. I mean, the eye test would tell us Brady isn't top-5 anymore, but let's face it, that was a very soft schedule he got to face, especially with some of the D's being decimated by the time he faced them. Still, like anything else, it's just a tool. I still haven't found a good tool for QB evaluation that I think grabs the essence of good vs. meh vs. bad QB play other than at the extremes, and for team / unit play, I much prefer DVOA. I do love the new hard next-gen stats that reflect the context of the game - and I don't think PFF ratings will ever account for this complexity nearly as well. But to each their own - as long as we understand the limitations and strengths, then hopefully it's helpful. But any tool that says Keenum is better than 8 other starting QB's...man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Here is the interview series I was talking about. Basically chronicles the history of PFF. It was done in 2017. I found the first two, including the one with founder Neil Hornsby insightful. But there are others. I think it's 6 parts in total with different people interviewed. I'll have to listen them again, but the one thing I remember about the Hornsby one is how everything essentially got started on his end years before PFF even started as a company. Especially how chronicling games without the All-22 was able to happen. It wouldn't be for another 5 seasons after PFF started, that it was made publicly available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkwdw13 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 hours ago, PapaShogun said: I wonder if Chase Daniel would actually be an upgrade. You could look at his game against the NY Giants to get this answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said: You could look at his game against the NY Giants to get this answer. Right. One game sample size though. Didn't he play well against the Lions in the other game he started? I've wondered what Daniel would be going into the season as a guy that a team actually believed in. He's never really gotten that chance usually being stuck behind a quality starer or now, a high draft choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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