Baltimore Ravens 2019 Offseason Tracker

[DreamKid]

I certainly think Skura is young enough to improve upon his game. The same can be said for most young players though. The issue is he doesn't that much potential to tap into. As we wait for him to improve, we're ultimately fielding a sub par talent. Dragging our offense's potential and possibly affecting the critical developmental window for our young QB. 

 It's an investment game. Skura has given us a strong return. An UDFA capable of competently filling in at both Guard & Center is a pretty solid find. We should appreciate what he is, but understand what he isn't. An upgrade is needed. 

[sp6488]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:11 PM, DreamKid said:

That's what we're counting on other teams believing lol. Look, he's a solid player but he's too inconsistent to toss huge money at.

Pierce is a savage. I won't be shocked if some team actually tries to take advantage of the 2nd Round tender we slap on him.

It speaks more to his versatility than anything else. ZDS' ability to kick inside let's us get more pass rushers on the field. He's grown as an interior rusher certainly, but I still consider him a strong outside rush option as well. 

Barring something absolutely stupid as far as an offer, I could see the Ravens using this as a way of getting a reasonable extension in place, since another team would ostensibly discount the contract by the value of the associated 2nd rounder.

[vikes635]

You Have Young and Candy that play nickle, any other CBs best suited for nickle on your team?

[drd23]

14 minutes ago, vikes635 said:

You Have Young and Candy that play nickle, any other CBs best suited for nickle on your team?

In the top 6 (Humphrey, Smith, Carr, Young, Canady, Averett)? No.  But Jaylen Hill showed a lot in pre-season two years ago and made the opening roster before getting injured, and would certainly be worth a roster spot on another team imo

[AngusMcFife]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:34 PM, DreamKid said:

I certainly think Skura is young enough to improve upon his game. The same can be said for most young players though. The issue is he doesn't that much potential to tap into. As we wait for him to improve, we're ultimately fielding a sub par talent. Dragging our offense's potential and possibly affecting the critical developmental window for our young QB. 

 It's an investment game. Skura has given us a strong return. An UDFA capable of competently filling in at both Guard & Center is a pretty solid find. We should appreciate what he is, but understand what he isn't. An upgrade is needed. 

Thanks for your thoughts. I am wondering, though, do most centers show tons of upside, or do they just learn and become good players? Granted there are athletic freaks like the Pouncey's, but most centers don't flash those attributes.  

For instance, Jensen was a beast for us in 2017, but prior to that was cut, put on the PS, and didn't really play much for his first four years. I don't remember anyone hyping his potential to be a great C prior to 2017, even though he was always a feisty run blocker. 

I don't know what Skura's potential is, but for him to step in and competently play C for 16 games coming from being a UDFA, means he has actually improved quite a bit since he was signed by the Ravens in 2016. If he can continue to improve, I don't see why we would want to replace him. 

Offensive lines also need continuity to be effective. For instance Jensen was good for us in 2017, but a bust for Tampa in 2018. The context matters. So I wonder about bringing in new centers because they might not be as effective in the Ravens offense as they were elsewhere.  

[AngusMcFife]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:13 PM, drd23 said:

It's certainly possible that Skura could improve, although I'd think it unlikely given he's heading into his 4th year in the NFL system (1 year on the PS, 1 year primarily as a back-up, 1 year starting).  I also think many fans are still feeling a little burned by Jeremy Zuttah's last couple of years here where his lack of strength at C really hampered any chance of the offense being productive.

The problem I see with getting "a road-grading LG" is that that prototype usually means trading strength for movement skills, and given some of the weird blocking schemes that Roman has employed and all of the option stuff we'll likely still be using, I see movement from the OL being quite important going forward.  I'm not sure how the scheme would work with another bigger, slower OLman given that Zeus Jr isn't the most nimble and Yanda is slowing down.

All that said, it is certainly one avenue to upgrade the OL that has been considered, hence @DreamKid's pimping of Cody Ford in the draft thread

Yes I know Zuttah brings back bad memories, although not nearly as bad as Gino Gradkowski. 

I probably should have used a better term than "road-grader". I did mean someone who can dominate in the run game, but these days I know that means he has to be athletic and not just a mauler. My basic point was that I think if we upgraded the LG position, rather than C, that might yield the most improvement to the offense. 

[DreamKid]

37 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

I am wondering, though, do most centers show tons of upside, or do they just learn and become good players? Granted there are athletic freaks like the Pouncey's, but most centers don't flash those attributes.

Upside isn't limited to base tested athleticism. Especially at a more cerebral position like Center. Players can improve their hand usage/placement and get a little stronger etc,  but there is a lot of natural aptitude that is either there or isn't. Balance, Recognition, Feel for the 2nd level, High Motor(Do they look for work?), Communication, Can they anchor and re anchor?

So yes, strong candidates for the position will flash significant traits that are synonymous with success at the position. 

54 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

For instance, Jensen was a beast for us in 2017, but prior to that was cut, put on the PS, and didn't really play much for his first four years. I don't remember anyone hyping his potential to be a great C prior to 2017, even though he was always a feisty run blocker.

I don't know about hyping him to be "great", but there were certainly people who were encouraged by what they had seen in opportunities at guard & center from him. Scoring on him was also frequently higher than his station. 

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

I don't know what Skura's potential is, but for him to step in and competently play C for 16 games coming from being a UDFA, means he has actually improved quite a bit since he was signed by the Ravens in 2016. If he can continue to improve, I don't see why we would want to replace him. 

Competency, especially along the OL, is incredibly valuable. More valuable though, is fielding as many plus players as you can. Through almost 30 starts we've haven't seen anything close to plus play out of Skura. At a key position like center, that deficiency will have a ripple effect that caps the offense's potential.

Progression isn't static. And waiting/counting on it from Above Average talents can be damning, let alone passable talents.

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

Offensive lines also need continuity to be effective. For instance Jensen was good for us in 2017, but a bust for Tampa in 2018. The context matters. So I wonder about bringing in new centers because they might not be as effective in the Ravens offense as they were elsewhere.

Jensen was a bust because of how much they paid him. He was a good not great player for us, and that's what he was for them. Offensive line transplants work all the time. I wouldn't worry about it. 

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

I did mean someone who can dominate in the run game, but these days I know that means he has to be athletic and not just a mauler. My basic point was that I think if we upgraded the LG position, rather than C, that might yield the most improvement to the offense.

James Hurst was a key cog in our running game last year. His ability to pull and consistently get us the numbers advantage was a big asset. One that Roman constantly took advantage of.

I think we should upgrade both C & LG, but I do think Hurst is the better player between the two.

[drd23]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

I think we should upgrade both C & LG, but I do think Hurst is the better player between the two.

This is where I'm at too if you take into account 2017 and not just 2018.  Looking at 2018 alone I'm not sure there's much of a difference 

[DreamKid]

5 minutes ago, drd23 said:

This is where I'm at too if you take into account 2017 and not just 2018.  Looking at 2018 alone I'm not sure there's much of a difference 

Same valleys, but different peaks. That's how I look at it.

[diamondbull424]

12 hours ago, drd23 said:

This is where I'm at too if you take into account 2017 and not just 2018.  Looking at 2018 alone I'm not sure there's much of a difference 

And that’s considering Hurst was playing with a messed up back for much of the year and so when he finally got injected into the lineup was built as a RT vs a LG. Given an entire offseason to focus on the position, I honestly think any player we draft for LG won’t beat him out barring injury (and I mean this from a pure ability standpoint and not simply from a Harbaugh benches rookies standpoint).

Skura has proven to be consistently inadequate and his lack of strength has forced both Hurst and Yanda to have to try and provide assistance. Then throw in the inconsistency of his snaps where some come off a little too high, some come in a little too fast, and some come in a little too far to the left... And he most needs to be upgraded and it’s truly not even close. Preferably with a veteran center to help cover much of the line calls for Lamar Jackson. But if not that, then I would love to obtain a high level center prospect or roll with Bozeman and see what he can provide.

[coordinator0]

https://russellstreetreport.com/2019/02/19/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/ravens-cap-update/

Quote

SALARY CAP UPDATE: The league-wide 2019 Salary Cap is expected to be in the 187-191M range. The Ravens currently have 55 players under contract for 2019 with a total Rule of 51 Cap commitment of $172.571M. If the Cap is set at $189M, this would mean the Ravens presently have $20.9M in Cap space.

This is the number that will be thrown around as the Ravens’ Cap space, however, this number does not include many of the adjustments (incentive adjustments, RFA/ERFA tenders) that will come into play before the new league year begins on March 13th. It also does not include the Cap savings from the Flacco trade.

Once all of those factors are put in place – including the savings from the Flacco trade – it is estimated that the Ravens will have around $19.4M in available Salary Cap space. Obviously, other trades, cuts or re-signings will also impact this number between now and March 13th.

 

[Danand]

4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

And that’s considering Hurst was playing with a messed up back for much of the year and so when he finally got injected into the lineup was built as a RT vs a LG. Given an entire offseason to focus on the position, I honestly think any player we draft for LG won’t beat him out barring injury (and I mean this from a pure ability standpoint and not simply from a Harbaugh benches rookies standpoint).

Skura has proven to be consistently inadequate and his lack of strength has forced both Hurst and Yanda to have to try and provide assistance. Then throw in the inconsistency of his snaps where some come off a little too high, some come in a little too fast, and some come in a little too far to the left... And he most needs to be upgraded and it’s truly not even close. Preferably with a veteran center to help cover much of the line calls for Lamar Jackson. But if not that, then I would love to obtain a high level center prospect or roll with Bozeman and see what he can provide.

l also think there is some due diligence to us selecting a really good oline talent instead of taking a chance of developing a low round prospect into something decent. We don’t know for how long we have Yanda, so getting the OC to build around and have him be ready once Yanda retires to lead that oline is something I view as key. Yanda is still the guy who gets the oline set and tells Skura when the oline is ready. Having Yanda next to a great talent at OC would help that transition.

[AngusMcFife]

20 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Upside isn't limited to base tested athleticism. Especially at a more cerebral position like Center. Players can improve their hand usage/placement and get a little stronger etc,  but there is a lot of natural aptitude that is either there or isn't. Balance, Recognition, Feel for the 2nd level, High Motor(Do they look for work?), Communication, Can they anchor and re anchor?

So yes, strong candidates for the position will flash significant traits that are synonymous with success at the position. 

I don't know about hyping him to be "great", but there were certainly people who were encouraged by what they had seen in opportunities at guard & center from him. Scoring on him was also frequently higher than his station. 

Competency, especially along the OL, is incredibly valuable. More valuable though, is fielding as many plus players as you can. Through almost 30 starts we've haven't seen anything close to plus play out of Skura. At a key position like center, that deficiency will have a ripple effect that caps the offense's potential.

Progression isn't static. And waiting/counting on it from Above Average talents can be damning, let alone passable talents.

Jensen was a bust because of how much they paid him. He was a good not great player for us, and that's what he was for them. Offensive line transplants work all the time. I wouldn't worry about it. 

James Hurst was a key cog in our running game last year. His ability to pull and consistently get us the numbers advantage was a big asset. One that Roman constantly took advantage of.

I think we should upgrade both C & LG, but I do think Hurst is the better player between the two.

Thanks. Regarding your first point, how do you account for a guy like Matt Birk? He was a 6th round draft pick, and played sparingly his first two seasons. Then he became a perennial pro-bowl center. Or how about Jeff Saturday? He went undrafted, signed by the Ravens in 1998 (!), then was cut and was working at a hardware store before signing with the Colts the next year. If these guys had the traits you are talking about, they would have never been picked so low coming out of college. And yet they became great centers in the league for many years. 

I can understand thinking Hurst may be slightly better than Skura, but 1) Hurst is older and is starting to get injured, and 2) it is much easier to acquire a dominating guard than it is a center. 

Looking at some grades, it looks like Skura was substantially better in the second half of the season with the Lamar Jackson offense. It just seems silly to discount a guy who has gone from a nobody UDFA to starting center for a playoff team in 2 years. When you say this

Quote

Through almost 30 starts we've haven't seen anything close to plus play out of Skura.

You are suggesting he hasn't had very good games, which is simply false. His play right after the bye was consistently strong this year. 

I do agree that Cody Ford might be a great addition to play LG. Of course we could draft Ford and sign Paradis, but I just don't see the upgrade from Skura to Paradis to be necessarily worth the money Paradis will demand. 

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Danand said:

l also think there is some due diligence to us selecting a really good oline talent instead of taking a chance of developing a low round prospect into something decent. We don’t know for how long we have Yanda, so getting the OC to build around and have him be ready once Yanda retires to lead that oline is something I view as key. Yanda is still the guy who gets the oline set and tells Skura when the oline is ready. Having Yanda next to a great talent at OC would help that transition.

Lamar Jackson needs to start making the calls. It was utterly embarrassing having the O-lineman calling out protections when 10-year veteran Flacco was under center. It is more common with younger QBs, but at a certain stage, the QB needs to be responsible. It's better to start that process now with Lamar. 

Ultimately the QB has a great advantage before the snap if he can figure out the defensive alignment and knows the blocking schemes.  

[Danand]

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

Lamar Jackson needs to start making the calls. It was utterly embarrassing having the O-lineman calling out protections when 10-year veteran Flacco was under center. It is more common with younger QBs, but at a certain stage, the QB needs to be responsible. It's better to start that process now with Lamar. 

Ultimately the QB has a great advantage before the snap if he can figure out the defensive alignment and knows the blocking schemes.  

Olines do this as well. When a QB points out a blitzer, the olines then discuss/communicates which one picks up who on the defensive side.

Unless you had a video feed with sound from Joe Flacco that the rest of us didn’t have, you can’t say he didn’t call the protection or audibles for that matter.