Raiders Defense

[drfrey13]

9 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. Guys were hurt though. And unless he Randy 

2. Incognito has been a good pick up, injury aside. Miller has been a bright spot. Parker hasn't been absolute trash. And Brown was considered a rock solid signing across the league. 

3. What alternative was there? Put Young in? 

4. He's been here for 3 seasons bro.

In 2020, we dipped to the 24th ranked unit missing half of the line to injury/covid. 

In 2019, we were 15th. 

In 2018, when he took over, we ranked like 27th while playing rebuilding following drafting Miller and Parker, losing Watson and watching Osemele fall flat, and losing Donald Penn in week 4.

He's had 1 season of regression on the line and it came during a bizarre season where injuries also hurt a lot. 

1) Who was hurt?  Most of the guys who missed time where guys he brought in.  

2) Incognito has been here 2 years and missed 18 games.  Good while on the field but a G in the late 30's you should expect injuries.  Miller was good but should not have kept playing in 2018.  Parker has looked good at LT and garbage at RT which is where they keep wanting to play him.  You gave a bunch of money to a guy who quit on you and only played half the games.  

3) No.  Young should have not been signed.  Yet again another player brought in that can not stay on the field.  I think I am sensing a theme here.

4)  2020? A bunch of the players he brought in got hurt or quit on him.  Player that where here before him wanted to leave also.

2019?  We had a healthy Miller (16 games), Incognito (12 games), Hudson (15 games), Jackson (11 Games), and Brown (11 games).  We had Good as a backup also.  So when we had an average injury season on the line we ranked 15th.  Not good enough for the talent we had.

2018?  Parker looked bad because they refused to play him at his natural position.  KO was asked to do stuff he should not have.  Penn should never have been asked to move to the right side.  Miller was a clear liability on the field while he was hurt.

 

Cable has to except some responsibility for injuries or players not being on the field.  If leatherwood goes down with a season ending injury that is not on Cable because there are no red flags so far.  If Incognito goes down that is on Cable.  He has to take full responsibility for the play on the field when he has guys playing out of position.  Just like he takes the blame, if the players he has brought in succeed I will give him the credit.   By my score card so far he has hurt the team more than he has helped it.

[ronjon1990]

36 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

1) Who was hurt?  Most of the guys who missed time where guys he brought in.  

2) Incognito has been here 2 years and missed 18 games.  Good while on the field but a G in the late 30's you should expect injuries.  Miller was good but should not have kept playing in 2018.  Parker has looked good at LT and garbage at RT which is where they keep wanting to play him.  You gave a bunch of money to a guy who quit on you and only played half the games.  

3) No.  Young should have not been signed.  Yet again another player brought in that can not stay on the field.  I think I am sensing a theme here.

4)  2020? A bunch of the players he brought in got hurt or quit on him.  Player that where here before him wanted to leave also.

2019?  We had a healthy Miller (16 games), Incognito (12 games), Hudson (15 games), Jackson (11 Games), and Brown (11 games).  We had Good as a backup also.  So when we had an average injury season on the line we ranked 15th.  Not good enough for the talent we had.

2018?  Parker looked bad because they refused to play him at his natural position.  KO was asked to do stuff he should not have.  Penn should never have been asked to move to the right side.  Miller was a clear liability on the field while he was hurt.

 

Cable has to except some responsibility for injuries or players not being on the field.  If leatherwood goes down with a season ending injury that is not on Cable because there are no red flags so far.  If Incognito goes down that is on Cable.  He has to take full responsibility for the play on the field when he has guys playing out of position.  Just like he takes the blame, if the players he has brought in succeed I will give him the credit.   By my score card so far he has hurt the team more than he has helped it.

So you have an irrational hatred of Tom Cable? Because your reasons make very little logical sense. 

That you, Randy?

[drfrey13]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

So you have an irrational hatred of Tom Cable? Because your reasons make very little logical sense. 

That you, Randy?

Does a coach not take responsibility for the players they bring in if they ignore red flags?  Does a coach not take responsibility for the players they pound the table for in the draft?  Does a coach not take responsibility for the product on the field especially if they make decisions that I was calling them out for when they occurred in the draft?  No coach is perfect and not everything that happens is their fault but when their decisions have a net negative effect on the team you need to look in another direction.  Do you really think that having the 15th ranked o-line is good compared to the players we had playing?  That was his best year.  I think Cable is a piece of crap and laugh every time someone says we will not sign player x because he hit a woman but this is an argument about the product on the field.  I have already said if he can turn it around this year I will give him credit for it but I think he is a bad fit for this team because they have given him to much say.  I am sure if you gave him a LT to play LT, a LG to play LG,...etc he could do a good job of coaching them up but where he hurts himself and this team is when he is stubborn and thinks because player x has certain measurables he should be able to fit where he wants them.  He screwed up in Seattle with this and is now doing it here.  People want to say he is a good coach but he has underachieved every year.  Nothing irrational about it.  Just going off of what has happened so far and I do not give him a pass for players he brought in that were ticking time bombs (400 lb RT and a late 30s G).  He needs to stop trying to be a mad genius and focus on just putting a line out there that is greater than the sum of its parts.

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

So you have an irrational hatred of Tom Cable? Because your reasons make very little logical sense. 

That you, Randy?

Ask Seahawks fans how they feel about the OL Cable built and developed for them. 

[NYRaider]

On 6/20/2021 at 4:24 AM, Jeremy408 said:

Whether Arnette turns out to be a bust or not, it can’t be determined after 7 games and a report from Vic Tafur in mini camp. 

Of course not but it's pretty obvious that Arnette and Abram are both on short leashes and that Gus isn't a huge fan of either guy.

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Does a coach not take responsibility for the players they bring in if they ignore red flags?  Does a coach not take responsibility for the players they pound the table for in the draft?  Does a coach not take responsibility for the product on the field especially if they make decisions that I was calling them out for when they occurred in the draft?  No coach is perfect and not everything that happens is their fault but when their decisions have a net negative effect on the team you need to look in another direction.  Do you really think that having the 15th ranked o-line is good compared to the players we had playing?  That was his best year.  I think Cable is a piece of crap and laugh every time someone says we will not sign player x because he hit a woman but this is an argument about the product on the field.  I have already said if he can turn it around this year I will give him credit for it but I think he is a bad fit for this team because they have given him to much say.  I am sure if you gave him a LT to play LT, a LG to play LG,...etc he could do a good job of coaching them up but where he hurts himself and this team is when he is stubborn and thinks because player x has certain measurables he should be able to fit where he wants them.  He screwed up in Seattle with this and is now doing it here.  People want to say he is a good coach but he has underachieved every year.  Nothing irrational about it.  Just going off of what has happened so far and I do not give him a pass for players he brought in that were ticking time bombs (400 lb RT and a late 30s G).  He needs to stop trying to be a mad genius and focus on just putting a line out there that is greater than the sum of its parts.

And so I ask:

Miller- take him or leave him?

Jackson- should we have cut him before?

Hudson- should we have cut him before?

Incognito- bad signing? If so, who would you recommend? 

Brown- again, a bad signing that looked like a huge gain to like 90% of the league. Who would you have preferred? 

Parker, Leatherwood, Simpson, Good- which of these would you not want to have, and who would you choose? 

James- hasn't taken a snap yet. 

 

We took a huge leap forward in 2019. We weren't going to become a top 5 unit immediately, not with all of the work we had to do and had just done. 

2020 was a setback, due in large part to injury and inconsistent lineups. I mean, for God's sake, there was at least 1 game we nearly had to go into without our entire starting O-line. 

You bring up red flags, yet the prime red flag was a guy who many hailed as one of the league's best, coming off of a very good rebound year. Not to mention, a good portion of his time missed stemmed from Covid and a botched procedure. Is Cable responsible for Covid and our medical staff too? (Actually, according to you, he might be). 

What draft pick hasn't worked out? Miller did. Parker has become a key backup, not bad for a 3rd rounder. Simpson is apparently the heir apparent to Incognito, who plays at a very high level despite his age. Again, unless Tom Cable personally injured Incognito last year, that just happens. Is Kyle Shanahan solely to blame for San Francisco getting eviscerated by injuries last year? 

Our regression in 2020 had to due with a plethora of things well beyond Tom Cable's control. What "negative" impact has he had other than you not liking him? 

2019's 15th ranking- yeah, I think that was pretty solid considering that we missed a collective 14 games amongst the starters, were relying on a rookie RB, and had virtually no pass game to speak of due to Tyrell Williams going down early. 

Most people who watched us in 2019 expected us to be a top 10 OL unit last year. Injuries happen. Covid was a thing. And we got bit by both pretty often. And those simply cannot be placed on Cable without it being totally irrational. 

[ronjon1990]

9 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Ask Seahawks fans how they feel about the OL Cable built and developed for them. 

Seattle has had many problems. 

Losing Lynch to a rotating door of subpar RBs. 

Ciara's husband preferring to run around endlessly in the backfield looking for a big play.

Poor drafting and development in general in recent years beyond just the O-line. 

I think I prefer to leave Seahawks fans well enough alone. They're typically a fairly sad bunch regardless. Must be the weather. Lol

[NYRaider]

Just now, ronjon1990 said:

Seattle has had many problems. 

Losing Lynch to a rotating door of subpar RBs. 

Ciara's husband preferring to run around endlessly in the backfield looking for a big play.

Poor drafting and development in general in recent years beyond just the O-line. 

I think I prefer to leave Seahawks fans well enough alone. They're typically a fairly sad bunch regardless. Must be the weather. Lol

Cable's lines over his career have given up an average of 42 sacks per season.

[drfrey13]

48 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

And so I ask:

Miller- take him or leave him?

Jackson- should we have cut him before?

Hudson- should we have cut him before?

Incognito- bad signing? If so, who would you recommend? 

Brown- again, a bad signing that looked like a huge gain to like 90% of the league. Who would you have preferred? 

Parker, Leatherwood, Simpson, Good- which of these would you not want to have, and who would you choose? 

James- hasn't taken a snap yet. 

 

We took a huge leap forward in 2019. We weren't going to become a top 5 unit immediately, not with all of the work we had to do and had just done. 

2020 was a setback, due in large part to injury and inconsistent lineups. I mean, for God's sake, there was at least 1 game we nearly had to go into without our entire starting O-line. 

You bring up red flags, yet the prime red flag was a guy who many hailed as one of the league's best, coming off of a very good rebound year. Not to mention, a good portion of his time missed stemmed from Covid and a botched procedure. Is Cable responsible for Covid and our medical staff too? (Actually, according to you, he might be). 

What draft pick hasn't worked out? Miller did. Parker has become a key backup, not bad for a 3rd rounder. Simpson is apparently the heir apparent to Incognito, who plays at a very high level despite his age. Again, unless Tom Cable personally injured Incognito last year, that just happens. Is Kyle Shanahan solely to blame for San Francisco getting eviscerated by injuries last year? 

Our regression in 2020 had to due with a plethora of things well beyond Tom Cable's control. What "negative" impact has he had other than you not liking him? 

2019's 15th ranking- yeah, I think that was pretty solid considering that we missed a collective 14 games amongst the starters, were relying on a rookie RB, and had virtually no pass game to speak of due to Tyrell Williams going down early. 

Most people who watched us in 2019 expected us to be a top 10 OL unit last year. Injuries happen. Covid was a thing. And we got bit by both pretty often. And those simply cannot be placed on Cable without it being totally irrational. 

1) I am fine with Miller but leaving him in after his injury in 2018 was a suspect move.  He was clearly hurting the team and did not help Carr's mental recovery.

2) Jackson - Over paid but that is not Cable's issue.  What is his issue is that Jackson was an alternate pro bowler in 2016 and 2017.  Clearly took a step back.

3) See above only Hudson has maintained his play level for the most part. Age is also catching up to him.

4) Incognito at 36 was an injury waiting to happen.  Now we are still rolling with him at 38 after missing most of the year after an achillies injury.  What could go wrong.  At least he is cheap now.

5) TB has had issues with injuries, work ethic, weight, and conditioning.  He worked hard to make the team in SF and played well in NE.  He is a changed man.  Nope.  He is motivated by money and whatever BB gives his guys to turn their lives around.  As soon as they leave it is back to their old habits.  Never sign a NE FA.  I think I have heard that before.

Leatherwood, Simpson, and James are still question marks and that is also why I said I will take a wait and see approach this year with those guys.  If they play well I will give Cable the credit the same way I have with Miller.

Good is above average and I am happy we brought him back.  But it is not like Cable developed him or turned his career around.  I like the signing though.

Parker I like at LT and only at LT.  Problem is Cable seems to think he is a RT and has for 3 years.  Refer back to #1.  Parker should have been in at LT as soon as Miller hurt his knee.  Nope lets leave him at RT and can turn Derek into David.  Horrible decision especially when you are risking your #1 rookies health and have other players who have played RT before to put there.

2020 was a setback for everyone and and ranked 15th in 2019 is not a good thing when we had a top ten line the 3 years prior to him coming here.  You think we improved on that talent but the level of play still fell off.  I can place partial blame on Cable when I could tell you before the season that Incognito and Brown where going to be problems.  I could have also told you we where going to have major issues with Penn and Parker at RT.  I spoke about that on a regular basis.

The line has still not played to expectations since he has been here and you can not argue that.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, drfrey13 said:

The line has still not played to expectations since he has been here and you can not argue that.

The OL was fine in 2019 but took a step back in 2020, which is to be expected when 2 Pro Bowl level players are hurt. 

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

Seattle has had many problems. 

Losing Lynch to a rotating door of subpar RBs. 

Ciara's husband preferring to run around endlessly in the backfield looking for a big play.

Poor drafting and development in general in recent years beyond just the O-line. 

I think I prefer to leave Seahawks fans well enough alone. They're typically a fairly sad bunch regardless. Must be the weather. Lol

I am sure they hate there 7 time pro bowl QB with the 2nd highest passer rating all time, 98-45-1 record, winning record in the playoffs, 2 SB appearances with 1 victory.  They have more Super Bowl wins then we have playoff wins since Wilson has been in the league.  It must be he weather.

[drfrey13]

5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The OL was fine in 2019 but took a step back in 2020, which is to be expected when 2 Pro Bowl level players are hurt. 

I am not saying injuries did not play a role.  What I am saying is each player has red flags.  You have to know what they are and be prepared for those issues.  We were not even though it was a strong possibility.  We had Young and Parker still playing RT.  Good was the only one ready.

[ronjon1990]

11 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The OL was fine in 2019 but took a step back in 2020, which is to be expected when 2 Pro Bowl level players are hurt. 

Those injuries are Cable's fault. He went full Tonya Harding, and we all missed it apparently.

[ronjon1990]

8 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I am sure they hate there 7 time pro bowl QB with the 2nd highest passer rating all time, 98-45-1 record, winning record in the playoffs, 2 SB appearances with 1 victory.  They have more Super Bowl wins then we have playoff wins since Wilson has been in the league.  It must be he weather.

I didn't say they hate Wilson. 

I said Seahawks fans, in my experience (Living in Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, Olympia, and University Place for a while, along with having my mom's entire family up there, I've dealt with quite a few), tend to be generally pessimistic about most everything regardless. 

[NYRaider]

Just now, ronjon1990 said:

Those injuries are Cable's fault. He went full Tonya Harding, and we all missed it apparently.

I mean it's more so on Gruden/Mayock for trusting Trent Brown to stay in shape after we gave him that massive contract. If he would have, even with Richie going down, we would've been able to plug Good into his spot. I'm not a huge Cable guy but we were playing musical chairs on the OL last year and still did pretty okay.