Was this the worst call in NFL history?

[Dr LBC]

3 minutes ago, Destructo Spin said:

I think people were talking more about it because it looked like Rams fans were setting up excuses in case the Rams lost, which is a bad look.

I'd rather people just say, "Hey, this looks like it should be a close game, it could go either way and these teams seem equally deserving of moving on," which is the truth. But instead it became this vibe where it seemed like a lot of people were saying the Rams couldn't possibly lose this game except for the referees messing it up.

Intentional or not, that's the vibe that particular set of complaints sends out. I'm not into trash talk, I think it's stupid and pointless and especially stupid when we as fans can do nothing to influence what happens on the field, much less "back up" your trash talk if that makes any sense. It seems a little arrogant to put the ref excuse out there ahead of time....again, I am not saying that was intentional, it likely wasn't.

I'd invite you to go back and look at the gameday thread the last time the Rams and Saints played.  It is absolutely LITTERED with people mocking any Rams poster who dared bring up a missed call.

I suspect you're rendering a judgment on the Rams fans being critical of this particular ref crew without actually having seen the context (This is the first Vinovich-reffed game the Rams have won in 7 years - now some of that you can hang on Jeff Fisher being a terribly mediocre coach, but even in those games Vinovich and his crew found a way to make some sketchy as hell calls; he's a bad referee, period).

I'd invite you to have a look at our sub-forum, most of us weren't optimistic at all about winning this game BECAUSE Vinovich was the referee - that's how driven down by him and his crew's incompetence we've come to feel because it's always seemed to come around to bite us.  It would be like if the league had announced that the same referee who ruled "Touchdown Seahawks" were picked to ref a Packers' game for a Championship.

It was DPI (I would have ruled it that way if I were reffing - and I've heard a number of folks arguing that the ball was uncatchable, and I'd still have called it DPI) and it clearly swung momentum - not unlike that time earlier this season when Johnny Hekker clearly made the line to gain on a punter-sneak and Vinovich's crew not only spotted him short, but then the booth upheld the call through a challenge - major momentum swing that affected the game there.  This crew misses calls at a regular clip.  They're a bad crew.  Bad, egregious calls happen in virtually every NFL game.

[Raves]

3 hours ago, FrantikRam said:

It was a bad no call.

But the Saints had opportunities to win after that. And the even with that call I would argue the officiating ended up being dead even for both teams.

We're also all watching this in super slow motion. Let's say for sake of the argument that the ref thought it was 50/50 - if he calls the flag and replay tells us it was not a penalty, he cost the Rams the game. But not throwing the flag was not going to cost the Saints the game - it would put them up 3.

From that perspective if the ref wasn't sure, it's much better to not throw the flag.

If we want to discuss that the official should have known it was a penalty, I'm cool with that too - but then you have to go back and look at every play and ask that every play be called fairly.

The Saints had several chances to win this game. The non call did not rob them of that - so this is nowhere near the worst non call ever. And it shouldn't even be in the same conversation as the tuck rule since refs got to use replay for that call.

That was a penalty at 2x speed.  The ball arrived like 2 seconds after the hit.

[Dr LBC]

10 minutes ago, Forge said:

They can confer, though you don't see that happen a ton on penalties (just every now and again). The problem here was that the penalty wasn't called initially. They weren't going to confer and then throw the flag after talking about it. 

Yup.  And this goes back to the "don't throw a flag unless you're positive you saw a foul committed"/let them play approach to refereeing versus the "throw the flag if you think you saw something but aren't sure, because we can always confer and decide" approach.  And which one is used typically comes down to the Head Official.

[FrantikRam]

41 minutes ago, Destructo Spin said:

I mean, if pass interference is called there the Saints statistically have a 98% chance to win there.

Not saying they didn't blow it in the overtime, but let's be real, if that play gets called correctly, its the Saints in the SB.

If I can be honest and say the Rams were the better team overall, and a more talented team, other ppl can be honest and say the Saints should've won that game if the call was made correctly.

I'm not going to complain too hard because I do think the Rams were the better/more talented team this season, but let's be honest, if this had happened to the Packers or Cowboys or somebody like that, the league office would be getting Molotov cocktails through its windows right now and they would be changing that rule ****ing tomorrow.

 

If they call PI there, they would have called 7 penalties on the Rams and 3 on the Saints.

Zero in the first half on the Saints while they built their lead, and Rams fans everywhere can submit screen shots of missed calls.

 

IDK how you feel about officiating, but here's my take: in the NFL, there's usually a penalty committed on every play. In a game of this magnitude, you have to keep track and call it even. It wouldn't have been nearly as public, but a more than 2-1 penalty ratio and 3-1 penalty yards ratio when we can easily see SEVERAL infractions committed by the Saints that weren't called would have been a worse look. They missed calls on both sides, but you can't have that type of discrepancy coupled with blatant missed calls on the Saints. So while that PI was bad, it evened out the officiating from my perspective. 

At the end of the day the Saints had multiple chances to win - I don't think this is nearly as egrigious as people are making it out to be if you'd look at the scope of the entire game, but most people aren't doing that for whatever reason.

[Dr LBC]

2 minutes ago, Raves said:

That was a penalty at 2x speed.  The ball arrived like 2 seconds after the hit.

Per what I've heard, the sideline official thought the ball was tipped.  He was wrong, but that's human error - not the clear intent to screw one team that some folks have been trying to sell.  He made a mistake.  This crew made a number of mistakes in this game; as they do in most games they officiate.

[Forge]

The good thing about this is that for the first time in a long time (maybe ever), we may get an actual push to make penalties (or non penalties) reviewable. If teams are still limited in their number of challenges, I don't see how this is a bad thing that will slow down the game in the way the league has always been fearful of. 

[Raves]

1 minute ago, The LBC said:

Per what I've heard, the sideline official thought the ball was tipped.  He was wrong, but that's human error - not the clear intent to screw one team that some folks have been trying to sell.  He made a mistake.  This crew made a number of mistakes in this game; as they do in most games they officiate.

The ball was a tight spiral, why the hell would he think it was tipped?  

[FrantikRam]

5 minutes ago, Raves said:

That was a penalty at 2x speed.  The ball arrived like 2 seconds after the hit.

It was definitely PI. But there were missed calls before that and no penalty call or non call decided this game.

[Dr LBC]

3 minutes ago, Raves said:

The ball was a tight spiral, why the hell would he think it was tipped?  

I'm just reporting what I'd seen written that was had been told to Robey-Coleman by an official.

[topwop1]

Really bad no call, don't think I've ever seen worse but wtf was Sean Payton thinking calling a pass play on 1st down late in that drive when they could have forced Rams to use all 3 time outs? If he manages the situation better there, maybe just maybe that no call PI play doesn't even matter or happen? Just awful clock management. No team deserves that no call but Saints need to only look at themselves for why they lost this game.

[Raves]

1 minute ago, The LBC said:

I'm just reporting what I'd seen written that was had been told to Robey-Coleman by an official.

Why the hell is the official even telling Robey-Coleman that.  Regardless of whatever delusional reality the ref had to not make the call doesn't make it right.  Sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you, I know you're the messenger, and I don't mean it to seem like that.  Just commenting on why I thought that was ridiculous to be an explanation.

[Pugger]

4 hours ago, DLF54927 said:

I'm not a big fan of blaming the team that got boned for a terrible call/non call by the refs.

Simply put, that call has to be made regardless of when, where and who.

It's a bad look.

What is really sad is supposedly the best crews are assigned to do these playoff games.  If this was one of the best God help us...

[Destructo Spin]

2 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Really bad no call, don't think I've ever seen worse but wtf was Sean Payton thinking calling a pass play on 1st down late in that drive? If he manages the situation better there, maybe just maybe that play doesn't even matter? Just awful clock management. No team deserves that no call but Saints need to only look at themselves for why they lost this game.

I think he was thinking that the Rams would be selling out for the run and the slant to Thomas was a safe play. That's maybe the 2nd or 3rd time all season a slant to Thomas didn't get caught, it was an extremely high percentage play and also the Rams had timeouts. Two? I think. In some ways, it's typical Sean Payton overthinking the situation which he's been known to know. But I get the thought process. He wanted to get closer and make the field goal a very short attempt.

[Pugger]

3 hours ago, FrantikRam said:

What about the other missed calls prior to that? If they played a part in the Saints getting up in the first place, why would we focus on just the one missed call?

Sure, it was toward the end of the game, but if better calls are made throughout the game the Rams are likely up 24-20 and the Saints need a TD there 

Yes, the officiating in that game was horrendous for both teams.

[Pugger]

1 hour ago, jaa1025 said:

I'm not sure I've seen worse calls in NFL history collectively than I have this year. It's been horrible. Today it cost the Saints and the Chiefs, which would have been a helluva lot more entertaining than the Rams and Pats. 

I thought the Chiefs screwed themselves.  Didn't they get an INT that was negated late in the 4th because one of their defenders lined up in the neutral zone?  If that player wasn't in the neutral zone the game is basically over.