Second Round WR - It’s Time

[spilltray]

Kind of a middle ground for me. If the board fell that way, I can definitely see room for improvement at WR. I'm not sold on anyone but Adams being any better than "good enough".

[Arthur Penske]

23 minutes ago, spilltray said:

Kind of a middle ground for me. If the board fell that way, I can definitely see room for improvement at WR. I'm not sold on anyone but Adams being any better than "good enough".

I know the situations aren't identical due to personnel, opportunity, injury etc, but MVS had more yards and YPC  his Rookie season than Davante did his rookie or sophomore seasons. MVS's YPC in 2018 was better than Davante's has ever been in his career (same with ESB). Imagine what it had been if Rodgers wouldn't' have uncharacteristically missed some of those long balls this season.

Of course, that dosen't mean he'll be as good of Davante, but not sure how one can't be excited about that. I expect those two to make some jumps this offseason.

That said, I'd still be ok with taking the right WR high.

[spilltray]

1 hour ago, Arthur Penske said:

I know the situations aren't identical due to personnel, opportunity, injury etc, but MVS had more yards and YPC  his Rookie season than Davante did his rookie or sophomore seasons. MVS's YPC in 2018 was better than Davante's has ever been in his career (same with ESB). Imagine what it had been if Rodgers wouldn't' have uncharacteristically missed some of those long balls this season.

Of course, that dosen't mean he'll be as good of Davante, but not sure how one can't be excited about that. I expect those two to make some jumps this offseason.

That said, I'd still be ok with taking the right WR high.

Adams had Nelson and Cobb clearly ahead of him.

[Kepler]

4 minutes ago, spilltray said:

Adams had Nelson and Cobb clearly ahead of him.

So disregard MVS's body of work so far because Davante played for an injured Boykin his rookie year? They both saw the field due to injury during their rookie campaigns. Davante had more catches and by far more targets this year than either Cobb or Nelson in 2014. This argument that, for some weird ******* reason, pits Adams against MVS is ridiculous. Is this your basis for predicting MVS will suck? Pretty thin argument considering it has absolutely nothing to do with talent.

[Arthur Penske]

46 minutes ago, spilltray said:

Adams had Nelson and Cobb clearly ahead of him.

Check out the first words of the post.

[Joe]

Don't crucify me here, but if Cobb were to come back on a cheap contract, do we move the need at slot WR down the pecking order? Maybe grab someone early Day 3?

[skibrett15]

I'd just rather have Dontrelle Inman than Cobb at this stage (a guy who was on the street mid-season), and do we really think Cobb is making less than Inman or the like?

[rcon14]

11 minutes ago, Joe said:

Don't crucify me here, but if Cobb were to come back on a cheap contract, do we move the need at slot WR down the pecking order? Maybe grab someone early Day 3?

IF we were to bring Cobb back, we probably don't add any WRs. You only have so many roster spots. Adams, Allison, Cobb, MVS, ESB already gets you to five WRs and then you have Kumerow and Moore as well. Maybe you add a day 3 guy, but at some point you run out of roster spots.

[SSG]

 

3 hours ago, 66fan said:

With MVS's measurables and had he played for Alabama, tOSU, Clemson, Oklahoma, etc rather than playing 2 years at NCST then transferring to South Florida he would be the second round pick that we are looking for in this draft.  Combine numbers of 6'4", 206 lbs, 32.25" arms, 10.25" hands, 4.37 forty time. I think that we just found our guy!

Jeff Janis showed us that there is a lot more to playing WR in the the NFL than just athletic measurables.  He was a substantially more productive WR in college and it never translated into consistant production. 

What makes you believe that a guy who was completely ordinary against the bad compettion in the AAC would have had success in the ACC, the SEC or the PAC12?  Let's not forget that he had to leave the ACC because he was dropping on the depth chartt and wanted more oppurtunity.  His draft position had more to do with mediocre production against low end compettion than it did where he played football IMO.  It's far too early IMO to start talking about him like he's a future star.  

[SSG]

17 hours ago, CWood21 said:

In those 5 games, MVS averaged 3.2 targets per game.  And that's heavily inflated by the fact that he had 7 targets in the Cardinals' game.  Without that, he averaged 2.3 targets per game.  If you don't get targets, you don't get receptions.  Plain and simple.  Ironically, Adams averaged 11.4 targets per game over that same time period.  The reality is that if he was a SRP, nobody would be clamoring to replace him.  Our offense became ridiculously one-dimensional.  It was throw the ball to Davante Adams every single play.

MVS is a 6'4" WR who ran a 4.37.  Jarrett Boykin is a 6'2" WR who ran a 4.67.  There's a stark difference.  And we all know Jeff Janis couldn't learn the playbook.

You get targets when you get open in my eyes.  I don't share the opinon that pass catchers have absolutely no responsibiltiy to beat their man and should get a target on every route regardless of their route.  Of course Daventa Adams got targets.  He's an elite WR and one of the 2 or 3 best route runners in the NFL.  MVS on the other hand is one of the team's worst route runners and he seemed to abandon the play when ever he wasn't getting the target regardless of what his QB was doing.  He was as bad at the scramble drill as any WR I've ever seen start in this offense.

Not getting targets is EXACTLY the same excuse fans used when talking about Jeff Janis's lack of production over his Packer career (at least it was where I used to post).  

We're past the draft.  I could care less about MVS's athletic measurables.  Jeff Janis was as good of an athlete as any WR who'd ever been on the roster before him and it meant absolutely nothing.  Jarrett Boykin, a terrible athlete, was more productive despite playing with Matt Flynn for most of the season and playing fewer snaps.  As Boykin showed, production by itself means very little in an offense that has churned out WR production every single season.  You can go from being a 600 yard receiver in this offense to out of the NFL in a snap of the finger.  

Who's clamoring to replace MVS?  I want insurance for him.  I don't understand how anyone could look at our offense last year and believe that we'll have a championship caliber offense next year with LESS TALENT.  I've also got amajor reserves about his piss poor college production where he didn't stand out despite playing against the terrible competetion that the AAC has too offer.   Maybe someone can help me but I'm having trouble finding really good pro WRs who weren't much better than replacement level in college.  

[SSG]

17 hours ago, incognito_man said:

This is not true. MVS did not have a 5-game starter stretch with those numbers.

He did, however, have a 5 game starter stretch where he had 21/362/2. Which expands to 67/1158/6 over 16 games.

He techniquelly didn't start those last 2 games after being benched in favor if ESB.  He seen 4 fewer snaps with the offense than ESB in week 14 and 21 fewer in week 15 where he got an equal time share with Kumerow.  Doesn't change the fact that he might as well have sat on the bench from weeks 11 thru 15 when we were fighting for our playoff lives.    

 

 

 

 

[SSG]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

Don't crucify me here, but if Cobb were to come back on a cheap contract, do we move the need at slot WR down the pecking order? Maybe grab someone early Day 3?

I'd imagine that we'll continue to ignore the offense in the draft if brining Cobb back is the answer to all of our offense's issues.  If that's the case, my bet would be that it will be 3 years in a row without the playoffs given how bad we looked last year.  We looked a lot more like one of the 2 or 3 worst teams in the league than we did a playoff team IMO.  New coach or not, I don't think our offense can function at an elite level with piss poor WR talent and that is EXACTLY what we had last year.  

 

[incognito_man]

11 minutes ago, SSG said:

He techniquelly didn't start those last 2 games after being benched in favor if ESB.  He seen 4 fewer snaps with the offense than ESB in week 14 and 21 fewer in week 15 where he got an equal time share with Kumerow.  Doesn't change the fact that he might as well have sat on the bench from weeks 11 thru 15 when we were fighting for our playoff lives.    

 

 

 

 

Davante Adams had a 10 rec for 90yd 5 game stretch his rookie year.

This is such a silly argument. You could find a 5 game stretch for every rookie WR ever that is similar to this ...

[Joe]

1 hour ago, rcon14 said:

IF we were to bring Cobb back, we probably don't add any WRs. You only have so many roster spots. Adams, Allison, Cobb, MVS, ESB already gets you to five WRs and then you have Kumerow and Moore as well. Maybe you add a day 3 guy, but at some point you run out of roster spots.

That's what I was thinking. You have to wonder if last year's output had more to do with instability all around rather than a poor showing overall.

[MacReady]

I just really wish I understood the WR infatuation of NFL fans.

Did Brady throw to another receiver all game except for Edelman?

AJ Green, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, Davante Adams, M. Evans, and on and on.  Watched the playoffs.  

Receiver does nothing for me.  If it was up to me, and if I had Aaron Rodgers, round 1 and 2 would be exclusively defense his entire career.  If he can't get it done with Adams, MVS, ESB and modest free agent signings, he's not half as good as people think he is.

That Super Bowl more than ever just proved to me we've gotta dump everything into defense in the draft.  We act like New England has no talent on defense, but I don't think that's true anymore.  McCourty and Gilmore were first round picks.  Shelton and Brown were first round picks.  Van Noy I think was a second.  Flowers I think was a Fourth.  It looks like they're not talented because none of them are having huge seasons because they're all coached just to do their jobs, but I think I was dead wrong saying they're not talented.  Clearly they are, and clearly we aren't, and it's defense that just won, its defense that always wins, and when it isn't defense that wins, it's defense that got them there.

EDGE, DL, DB and maybe even ILB in the first two rounds, and only offense if it's huge value for me.  I'm now firm on that.  We have cap space.  Use it on offense, use draft capital on defense.