NFL Draft Combine

[Rich51]

6 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Oh yeah. Gary is a fall back option for me if either Bosa/Allen go 1-2 or we move back. 

I think he’s going to be a stud personally but I’ve been wrong before.

Going by his combine performance and the fact that he was the number 1 high school player, it would seem like Gary should be a top 3 player in the draft. However he had a so so college career. My question to any Michigan/college fans is was it because of the Michigan scheme (for example I read somewhere that Oliver spent time at NT for Houston which affected his overall performance this season) or did Gary just show a lack of effort. The last lack of effort guy we drafted was Coples (who made Klecko say the “looks like Tarzan plays like Jane” line). The lack of effort trait won’t fly in the NFL. 

[KingOfNewYork]

Just now, Rich51 said:

Going by his combine performance and the fact that he was the number 1 high school player, it would seem like Gary should be a top 3 player in the draft. However he had a so so college career. My question to any Michigan/college fans is was it because of the Michigan scheme (for example I read somewhere that Oliver spent time at NT for Houston which affected his overall performance this season) or did Gary just show a lack of effort. The last lack of effort guy we drafted was Coples (who made Klecko say the “looks like Tarzan plays like Jane” line). The lack of effort trait won’t fly in the NFL. 

I don’t see the Coples comparison at all. 

Dude is a tremendous talent, natural fit in Williams scheme. Obviously there’s concern about lack of “production” but look at how many disruptive plays he’s causing from multiple areas along the front in both the run game and passing game.

[Bobby816]

For me I'd take Allen, Bosa, Sweat, Ferrell and maybe even Burns over Gary for a 3-4 edge rusher.

[KingOfNewYork]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

For me I'd take Allen, Bosa, Sweat, Ferrell and maybe even Burns over Gary for a 3-4 edge rusher.

True but you also continue to preach we’re a multiple front team and Gary can line up all over the D-Line. 

[Bobby816]

Just now, KingOfTheDot said:

True but you also continue to preach we’re a multiple front team and Gary can line up all over the D-Line. 

Absolutely we might run multiple fronts and all. But at the end of the day what we need is 2 edge rushers with speed. And I rate those guys higher than him in that rgard. I rate Gary as a poor mans Brandon Graham at this stage.

[KingOfNewYork]

12 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Absolutely we might run multiple fronts and all. But at the end of the day what we need is 2 edge rushers with speed. And I rate those guys higher than him in that rgard. I rate Gary as a poor mans Brandon Graham at this stage.

Idk man it’s close. Especially on film and he ran a faster than some of those guys as well. 

[Bobby816]

Just now, KingOfTheDot said:

Idk man it’s close. Especially on film and he ran a faster than some of those guys as well. 

I just think with the 3rd pick (or even in a trade back) those guys rank higher. Being that Gary played all over... I use that as a negative for him, bc he doesn't have the pure edge pass rushing ability of the other guys I named. As well as the speed to match some of them. Ferrell is the only one I believe that might have been slower than him, but he has the film to show he's a legit edge presence. Where Gary doesn't necessarily. I think the Coples comparison isn't good either. Bc I do see more of an edge rusher in him than Coples. But it does elude to show that Gary is a risk as an edge rusher. And with Leo, Anderson and Shepard we don't need just another athletic 3-4 DE. He need legit edge rushers with speed, have that dig, quickness, etc.

[KingOfNewYork]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I just think with the 3rd pick (or even in a trade back) those guys rank higher. Being that Gary played all over... I use that as a negative for him, bc he doesn't have the pure edge pass rushing ability of the other guys I named. As well as the speed to match some of them. Ferrell is the only one I believe that might have been slower than him, but he has the film to show he's a legit edge presence. Where Gary doesn't necessarily. I think the Coples comparison isn't good either. Bc I do see more of an edge rusher in him than Coples. But it does elude to show that Gary is a risk as an edge rusher. And with Leo, Anderson and Shepard we don't need just another athletic 3-4 DE. He need legit edge rushers with speed, have that dig, quickness, etc.

Let’s say it’s 

1. Murray

2. Bosa

3. Giants come get Haskins(though I’d take Allen)

4. Williams

5. Allen

6. Gary? Oliver? Ferrell?

where do you go at 6?

[Rich51]

1 hour ago, KingOfTheDot said:

I don’t see the Coples comparison at all. 

Dude is a tremendous talent, natural fit in Williams scheme. Obviously there’s concern about lack of “production” but look at how many disruptive plays he’s causing from multiple areas along the front in both the run game and passing game.

I haven’t seen him play much so I was asking if the lack of production was because of scheme or lack of effort. I guess a third choice is that he that despite of his talent, he just hasn’t matured yet.

The Coples reference was because Coples was clearly  given the lack of effort tag. I haven’t heard that about Gary so I just wondering why he, for example, is rated 44th by PFF while everybody that has him ranked higher is doing it solely on potential more than actual game play. For example NFL.com says he has elite potential if a DC can harness his energy. 

[rampantjet]

4 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Let’s say it’s 

1. Murray

2. Bosa

3. Giants come get Haskins(though I’d take Allen)

4. Williams

5. Allen

6. Gary? Oliver? Ferrell?

where do you go at 6?

In that scenario I'd say Burns probably.  Maybe Sweat, but i was a bigger fan of Burns before the combine than Sweat and I just don't see 4.41 when i watch Sweat play.  Burns is polished, was 249 and showed good athleticism.  I'd go Burns over Gary, Oliver, or Ferrell for sure.  I'd also consider Jawan Taylor in that scenario, and perhaps even Ford, or I'd even have to consider DK though I'd probably pass.

[barnaby8787]

18 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Let’s say it’s 

1. Murray

2. Bosa

3. Giants come get Haskins(though I’d take Allen)

4. Williams

5. Allen

6. Gary? Oliver? Ferrell?

where do you go at 6?

Depends on FA, but to me, Oliver might be the closest thing to Donald we’ve seen from an athleticism standpoint. The production is obviously there as well. I’d prob take him. 

[rampantjet]

13 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Depends on FA, but to me, Oliver might be the closest thing to Donald we’ve seen from an athleticism standpoint. The production is obviously there as well. I’d prob take him. 

Guy had 3 sacks in 8 games playing against meh competition this year.  Last year in a full season he only had 5.5 sacks.  I don't know how you can say the production is obviously there.  He is athletic and his weigh in went well, but the fact that he didn't run the 40 kind of scares me that he bulked way up before his weigh in with water weight and just bulking.  I think he is a talented dude but I just don't see the fit or the value over some other people.

[NJerseypaint]

23 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Depends on FA, but to me, Oliver might be the closest thing to Donald we’ve seen from an athleticism standpoint. The production is obviously there as well. I’d prob take him. 

Yeah, Oliver is the easy choice there for me. He's as much of a blue chip prospect as Bosa, Allen, and Q in my book.

[jetjuice]

1 hour ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Let’s say it’s 

1. Murray

2. Bosa

3. Giants come get Haskins(though I’d take Allen)

4. Williams

5. Allen

6. Gary? Oliver? Ferrell?

where do you go at 6?

This is the thing that deters me from trading back. We're basically guaranteed to trade ourselves out of contention for an elite player. I think the Raiders inevitably draft Josh Allen if we don't, I can't see Gruden and his ego trying to sign his Mack replacement in FA, it has to be a rookie on a cheap contract to prove his point. 

If it came down to this, players we'd have to consider: Ed Oliver, Jonah Williams, Jawaan Taylor, Cody Ford, Montez Sweat, DK Metcalf, Devin White, and Rashan Gary even though I'm not crazy about him.... can't see it being anyone else.

[NYJETS52]

3 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

I don’t see the Coples comparison at all. 

Dude is a tremendous talent, natural fit in Williams scheme. Obviously there’s concern about lack of “production” but look at how many disruptive plays he’s causing from multiple areas along the front in both the run game and passing game.

I'm glad you posted this video.  Here is what I see though.  I see a gifted athlete who has issues with outside containment.  I see an athlete that has the ability to recover after being fooled but I question if its something he will be able to do at the next level when every week he will be playing elite athletes.  I did laugh when the guy doing the commentary is discussing how he has issues getting of blocks when pass rushing and the play he uses to show a good block shed should have been a penalty as he poked the guy in the eye.  For me personally I want no part of him.