MacReady Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: BB could be 0-1000 without Brady and it's all irrelevant at this point to me, clearly night and day a better HC than Mac right now. He's not coaching Aaron Rodgers to a .500 record over the last 30 starts. Sean Payton coached Drew Brees to a .438 record over 48 starts and Drew Brees is better than Aaron Rodgers. Good thing the Saints fired Payton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 On top of what I just posted, let me provide a hypothetical for everyone: The Packers get the equivalent of Marcus Lattimore, Ryan Ramczyk, Marcus Williams and Alvin Kamara in the upcoming draft at EDGE, IOL, Safety and WR instead of CB, OT, S, RB. Does anybody think McCarthy isn't capable of taking this team to a Super Bowl win? Last year literally everybody complained about our talent and said the Packers are crap without Rodgers, and now suddenly our team is talented enough with Rodgers? Not buying it. McCarthy is just as capable of winning with an influx of talent as any other head coaching candidate. The only difference between McCarthy and the next head coach is that we know McCarthy is capable of coaching a talented team to success. We don't know what the hypothetical HC is capable of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Sean Payton coached Drew Brees to a .438 record over 48 starts and Drew Brees is better than Aaron Rodgers. Good thing the Saints fired Payton. Drew Brees is better in 2018 than Rodgers. Everyone and their aunt who doesn't watch football know the Saints sucked because they had a stretch of having one of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL. The Packers 2018 defense looks like the 85 Bears compared to those Saints defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: Drew Brees is better in 2018 than Rodgers. Everyone and their aunt who doesn't watch football know the Saints sucked because they had a stretch of having one of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL. The Packers 2018 defense looks like the 85 Bears compared to those Saints defenses. So we can blame McCarthy for our defense but we can't blame Payton for his defense? Fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: On top of what I just posted, let me provide a hypothetical for everyone: The Packers get the equivalent of Marcus Lattimore, Ryan Ramczyk, Marcus Williams and Alvin Kamara in the upcoming draft at EDGE, IOL, Safety and WR instead of CB, OT, S, RB. Does anybody think McCarthy isn't capable of taking this team to a Super Bowl win? Last year literally everybody complained about our talent and said the Packers are crap without Rodgers, and now suddenly our team is talented enough with Rodgers? Not buying it. McCarthy is just as capable of winning with an influx of talent as any other head coaching candidate. The only difference between McCarthy and the next head coach is that we know McCarthy is capable of coaching a talented team to success. We don't know what the hypothetical HC is capable of. So your argument is that although our HC can't coach a talented roster to an over .500 roster, that we should keep him because he could ride mega talented roster to a SB? That does not get me excited for keeping Mac at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Just now, Outpost31 said: So we can blame McCarthy for our defense but we can't blame Payton for his defense? Fair. Our defense is league average. It's our offense (which McCarthy runs) that's failed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: Our defense is league average. It's our offense (which McCarthy runs) that's failed us. So the Saints can have half of their team fail and not be blamed on Payton, but McCarthy can't be the 4th best offense statistically and the 13th best scoring offense? Again... Fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: So the Saints can have half of their team fail and not be blamed on Payton, but McCarthy can't be the 4th best offense statistically and the 13th best scoring offense? Again... Fair. Yeah that's a side of the team he's not responsible, not hard to grasp if you don't have an agenda. How many of us (the actual knowledgeable fans) wanted Mac gone for the awful defense the last few years vs Capers? Payton and Mac are glorified OC's. Pettine is the HC of our defense. If we were 4-5-1 with the #1 offense right now, no one would be asking for Mac to be fired, we'd be after Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Trace Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: The Mac has a better record without Rodgers than BB without Brady is a truly awful argument that is another circumstance to show you can make stats show just about anything you want. Mac's career trajectory to me is very similar to Ted. Excellent at what he did for many, many years. Still probably above average at what he does but clear regression and it's probably best he goes. He definitely coached up guys like Aaron Brooks, ARod, Flynn, Gannon, that KC QB, etc. No arguing those results. He did next to nothing with Brohm, Hundley, Callahan and I wouldn't hold my breath for Kizer. BB could be 0-1000 without Brady and it's all irrelevant at this point to me, clearly night and day a better HC than Mac right now. He's not coaching Aaron Rodgers to a .500 record over the last 30 starts. Not only did he not do anything with Hundley, who had talent (even if he may not have been starting material), this supposed QB Guru and Offensive Mastermind was twice shut out last year on his own turf ... yet we are to believe he would have done more with an arguably-worse Osweiler than O'Brien did -- when he cannot even get more out of Rodgers and all the other talent on offense. You just gotta laugh at the alternate reality that McCarthy loyalists have to live in to sustain their view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Just now, Gopher Trace said: Not only did he not do anything with Hundley, who had talent (even if he may not have been starting material), this supposed QB Guru and Offensive Mastermind was twice shut out last year on his own turf ... yet we are to believe he would have done more with an arguably-worse Osweiler than O'Brien did -- when he cannot even get more out of Rodgers and all the other talent on offense. McCarthy QB school teaches quarterbacks to not throw to Jordy here, right? You're being completely unfair with the talent at QB consideration. Hundley sucked. Hundley sucked badly. Really badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 (edited) Hundley did suck. How about Joe Callahan? Because I seem to remember someone in the Packers organization saying the following right after ARod went down in 2017: "Did you just listen to the question I just answered? I've got three years invested in Brett Hundley, two years invested in Joe Callahan, the quarterback room is exactly where it needs to be, okay?" Edited November 18, 2018 by TheOnlyThing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Trace Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: McCarthy QB school teaches quarterbacks to not throw to Jordy here, right? You're being completely unfair with the talent at QB consideration. Hundley sucked. Hundley sucked badly. Really badly. ... which is exactly why your argument that McCarthy would have done better with arguably-worse Osweiler and definitely-worse Savage falls flat. And let me get this straight: it's not the fault of our QB Guru/Offensive Mastermind if he cannot run the offense well enough to score any points at home because the QB he tutored for years is not competent, but if the QB he has to work with is undeniably competent as in the case of Rodgers, it's also not his fault that we are poised to finish about as poorly as we did when he was saddled with incompetent QB play? At what point does this guy's fabled QB- and offensive-wizardry come into question?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Packerraymond said: The Mac has a better record without Rodgers than BB without Brady is a truly awful argument that is another circumstance to show you can make stats show just about anything you want. Pointing out facts isn't an argument. I'm not sure what argument you think is being made here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Pointing out facts isn't an argument. I'm not sure what argument you think is being made here... If you're pointing out a random fact with no basis behind it what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: If you're pointing out a random fact with no basis behind it what's the point? I wasn't. I also certainly didn't say or imply or even come close to implying that MM is as good as BB either...not even close to the point being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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