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Aaron Rodgers Appreciation Thread 4.20

Shanedorf

By Shanedorf
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beekay414

beekay414

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Wow. What a comeback!

Brings me back to the 5th grade. And my dad could totally beat up your dad.

Ask me if I care about what you think...

You completely turned me off of your opinions with your blatant disingenuous post regarding Mac and BB the other night in an attempt to "help" whatever it is you were trying to accomplish. McCarthy has a better record without Rodgers than Bill B without Brady? Really? That's crazy slanted considering Mac had a 13-3 season with Brett ******* Favre.

McCarthy without Aaron Rodgers or HoF QB Brett Favre: .382 win%
Bill B without Tom Brady (including his tenure with the Browns): .466 win%

Definitely better...

Oh and here's one extremely evident thing...McCarthy has a vastly inferior record with Aaron Rodgers AND Brett Favre at the helm than Bill does with Brady. 

Regardless, I have no desire to even have this conversation with you simply because it will go absolutely nowhere. You, for some ungodly reason, think McCarthy is an elite head coach and, myself thinks he needs to be held accountable for his subpar performance over the last 2+ seasons. We are legitimately a sub .500 team since that throttling vs Denver. How is that even remotely acceptable to you? 

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Packer_ESP

Packer_ESP

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3 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Ask me if I care about what you think...

You completely turned me off of your opinions with your blatant disingenuous post regarding Mac and BB the other night in an attempt to "help" whatever it is you were trying to accomplish. McCarthy has a better record without Rodgers than Bill B without Brady? Really? That's crazy slanted considering Mac had a 13-3 season with Brett ******* Favre.

McCarthy without Aaron Rodgers or HoF QB Brett Favre: .382 win%
Bill B without Tom Brady (including his tenure with the Browns): .466 win%

Definitely better...

Oh and here's one extremely evident thing...McCarthy has a vastly inferior record with Aaron Rodgers AND Brett Favre at the helm than Bill does with Brady. 

Regardless, I have no desire to even have this conversation with you simply because it will go absolutely nowhere. You, for some ungodly reason, think McCarthy is an elite head coach and, myself thinks he needs to be held accountable for his subpar performance over the last 2+ seasons. We are legitimately a sub .500 team since that throttling vs Denver. How is that even remotely acceptable to you? 

Look, I'm as upset with MM as anyone right now but that argument about his record with Rodgers or Favre needs to die. First, those have been his starting quarterbacks for his whole career, so you're not arguing about his record with non-HOF QBs, you're arguing his record without his starting QB. Regardless, let's look at those QBs and their records under other coaches:

Mike McCarthy Quarterbacks

  • Matt Flynn: 3-3 under MM, 0-1 elsewhere
  • Scott Tolzien: 0-1-1 under MM, 0-2 elsewhere
  • Seneca Wallace: 0-1 under MM, 6-15 elsewhere
  • Brett Hundley: 3-6 under MM, 0-0 elsewhere

That's a 6-10-1 record or 36.11% winning percentage with quarterbacks that are 6-18 or 25% elsewhere. So yeah, Mike has a not-so-great record with quarterbacks that are even worse elsewhere. Most importantly, these four quarterbacks together have started 22 games in other teams - that's 5.5 starts per QB in average. They can't even be considered NFL journeymen. They just suck.

Let's do the same exercise for that guy whose name has become the greatest excuse to whine in the history of football.

Bill Bellichick Quarterbacks

  • Bernie Kosar: 11-19 under BB, 42-36-1 elsewhere
  • Mike Tomczak: 4-4 under BB, 38-27 elsewhere
  • Todd Philcox: 2-3 under BB, 0-0 elsewhere
  • Vinny Testaverde: 16-15 under BB, 74-108-1 elsewhere
  • Mark Rypien: 2-1 under BB, 45-30 elsewhere
  • Eric Zeier 1-3 under BB, 3-5 elsewhere
  • Drew Bledsoe: 5-13 under BB, 93-82 elsewhere
  • Matt Cassel: 10-5 under BB, 26-40 elsewhere
  • Jacoby Brisset: 1-1 under BB, 4-11 elsewhere
  • Jimmy Garoppolo: 2-0 under BB, 6-2 elsewhere

That's a 54-64 record or 45.76% winning percentage with quarterbacks that are 331-341-1 or 49.25% elsewhere. It turns out BB has coached these non-Brady QBs to underperform compared to their records elsewhere. Also, these guys have 668 starts for other coaches - that's a 66.8 average per QB for those at home keeping track. These are not backups or guys that went out of business after BB.

Before you try to drop the Browns from your qualifier or something, these are his splits by team

  • With the Browns: 36-45 (44.44%) for quarterbacks that are 202-206-1 (49.38%) elsewhere
  • With the Patriots: 18-19 (48.64%) for quarterbacks that are 129-135 (48.86%) elsewhere

He's coached these QBs up to their par at best (Patriots stint). Maybe it's just hard to win in this league without your starting QB?

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beekay414

beekay414

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1 minute ago, Packer_ESP said:

Look, I'm as upset with MM as anyone right now but that argument about his record with Rodgers or Favre needs to die. First, those have been his starting quarterbacks for his whole career, so you're not arguing about his record with non-HOF QBs, you're arguing his record without his starting QB. Regardless, let's look at those QBs and their records under other coaches:

Mike McCarthy Quarterbacks

  • Matt Flynn: 3-3 under MM, 0-1 elsewhere
  • Scott Tolzien: 0-1-1 under MM, 0-2 elsewhere
  • Seneca Wallace: 0-1 under MM, 6-15 elsewhere
  • Brett Hundley: 3-6 under MM, 0-0 elsewhere

That's a 6-10-1 record or 36.11% winning percentage with quarterbacks that are 6-18 or 25% elsewhere. So yeah, Mike has a not-so-great record with quarterbacks that are even worse elsewhere. Most importantly, these four quarterbacks together have started 22 games in other teams - that's 5.5 starts per QB in average. They can't even be considered NFL journeymen. They just suck.

Let's do the same exercise for that guy whose name has become the greatest excuse to whine in the history of football.

Bill Bellichick Quarterbacks

  • Bernie Kosar: 11-19 under BB, 42-36-1 elsewhere
  • Mike Tomczak: 4-4 under BB, 38-27 elsewhere
  • Todd Philcox: 2-3 under BB, 0-0 elsewhere
  • Vinny Testaverde: 16-15 under BB, 74-108-1 elsewhere
  • Mark Rypien: 2-1 under BB, 45-30 elsewhere
  • Eric Zeier 1-3 under BB, 3-5 elsewhere
  • Drew Bledsoe: 5-13 under BB, 93-82 elsewhere
  • Matt Cassel: 10-5 under BB, 26-40 elsewhere
  • Jacoby Brisset: 1-1 under BB, 4-11 elsewhere
  • Jimmy Garoppolo: 2-0 under BB, 6-2 elsewhere

That's a 54-64 record or 45.76% winning percentage with quarterbacks that are 331-341-1 or 49.25% elsewhere. It turns out BB has coached these non-Brady QBs to underperform compared to their records elsewhere. Also, these guys have 668 starts for other coaches - that's a 66.8 average per QB for those at home keeping track. These are not backups or guys that went out of business after BB.

Before you try to drop the Browns from your qualifier or something, these are his splits by team

  • With the Browns: 36-45 (44.44%) for quarterbacks that are 202-206-1 (49.38%) elsewhere
  • With the Patriots: 18-19 (48.64%) for quarterbacks that are 129-135 (48.86%) elsewhere

He's coached these QBs up to their par at best (Patriots stint). Maybe it's just hard to win in this league without your starting QB?

Seneca Wallace was the only veteran we brought in to play QB here that had an extensive background somewhere else so I don't see the relevance. Yeah, Wallace was 6-15 as a sporadic starter on bad teams for 7 years. That doesn't really prove much.

Simple fact is, Mac with HoF QBs has a far inferior record with a HoF QB that BB has. They aren't even in the same league. Mac is in the John Harbaugh tier, not the Bill Belichick tier.

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Packer_ESP

Packer_ESP

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5 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Seneca Wallace was the only veteran we brought in to play QB here that had an extensive background somewhere else so I don't see the relevance.

 

3 hours ago, beekay414 said:

McCarthy without Aaron Rodgers or HoF QB Brett Favre: .382 win%

Okay

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beekay414

beekay414

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6 minutes ago, Packer_ESP said:

 

Okay

Your emphasis was on QB% elsewhere in regards to BB and Mac. Wallace is literally the only one that had extensive opportunities elsewhere when it comes to his non-Aaron or Brett QBs. Its has more to do with your parameters than anything. They are as skewed as Incog's post was disingenuous.

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Packer_ESP

Packer_ESP

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15 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Your emphasis was on QB% elsewhere in regards to BB and Mac. Wallace is literally the only one that had extensive opportunities elsewhere when it comes to his non-Aaron or Brett QBs. Its has more to do with your parameters than anything. They are as skewed as Incog's post was disingenuous.

YOUR parameters were these coaches' records with QBs other than Rodgers, Favre or Brady. What I did was just show these QB's are trash in MM's case, which is something you are saying yourself. If these QBs are garbage, why is MM's record a knock against him?

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incognito_man

incognito_man

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Packer_ESP said:

Look, I'm as upset with MM as anyone right now but that argument about his record with Rodgers or Favre needs to die. First, those have been his starting quarterbacks for his whole career, so you're not arguing about his record with non-HOF QBs, you're arguing his record without his starting QB. Regardless, let's look at those QBs and their records under other coaches:

Mike McCarthy Quarterbacks

  • Matt Flynn: 3-3 under MM, 0-1 elsewhere
  • Scott Tolzien: 0-1-1 under MM, 0-2 elsewhere
  • Seneca Wallace: 0-1 under MM, 6-15 elsewhere
  • Brett Hundley: 3-6 under MM, 0-0 elsewhere

That's a 6-10-1 record or 36.11% winning percentage with quarterbacks that are 6-18 or 25% elsewhere. So yeah, Mike has a not-so-great record with quarterbacks that are even worse elsewhere. Most importantly, these four quarterbacks together have started 22 games in other teams - that's 5.5 starts per QB in average. They can't even be considered NFL journeymen. They just suck.

Let's do the same exercise for that guy whose name has become the greatest excuse to whine in the history of football.

Bill Bellichick Quarterbacks

  • Bernie Kosar: 11-19 under BB, 42-36-1 elsewhere
  • Mike Tomczak: 4-4 under BB, 38-27 elsewhere
  • Todd Philcox: 2-3 under BB, 0-0 elsewhere
  • Vinny Testaverde: 16-15 under BB, 74-108-1 elsewhere
  • Mark Rypien: 2-1 under BB, 45-30 elsewhere
  • Eric Zeier 1-3 under BB, 3-5 elsewhere
  • Drew Bledsoe: 5-13 under BB, 93-82 elsewhere
  • Matt Cassel: 10-5 under BB, 26-40 elsewhere
  • Jacoby Brisset: 1-1 under BB, 4-11 elsewhere
  • Jimmy Garoppolo: 2-0 under BB, 6-2 elsewhere

That's a 54-64 record or 45.76% winning percentage with quarterbacks that are 331-341-1 or 49.25% elsewhere. It turns out BB has coached these non-Brady QBs to underperform compared to their records elsewhere. Also, these guys have 668 starts for other coaches - that's a 66.8 average per QB for those at home keeping track. These are not backups or guys that went out of business after BB.

Before you try to drop the Browns from your qualifier or something, these are his splits by team

  • With the Browns: 36-45 (44.44%) for quarterbacks that are 202-206-1 (49.38%) elsewhere
  • With the Patriots: 18-19 (48.64%) for quarterbacks that are 129-135 (48.86%) elsewhere

He's coached these QBs up to their par at best (Patriots stint). Maybe it's just hard to win in this league without your starting QB?

I regret that I have but one like to give for this post.

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incognito_man

incognito_man

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This whole comparison started years ago in an attempt to silence the "MM lucked into getting a HOFer like Rodgers!!! Blah blah blah crowd.

So I showed them how even the best coach is bad without his HOF QB.

Unsurprisingly the goal posts keep moving.

And moving

And moving

And moving

Ive resigned myself to just stating it once and moving on these days. If someone continues to argue, they're clearly not open to facts and have an agenda.

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Pugger

Pugger

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8 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Seneca Wallace was the only veteran we brought in to play QB here that had an extensive background somewhere else so I don't see the relevance. Yeah, Wallace was 6-15 as a sporadic starter on bad teams for 7 years. That doesn't really prove much.

Simple fact is, Mac with HoF QBs has a far inferior record with a HoF QB that BB has. They aren't even in the same league. Mac is in the John Harbaugh tier, not the Bill Belichick tier.

We never really had a chance to see how Wallace would have performed for us.  Didn't he hurt himself in his first drive after Rodgers broke his left collarbone?  Poor Tolzien had no clue what the hell he was doing.   Scott is presently not on any NFL roster.

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Pugger

Pugger

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7 hours ago, Packer_ESP said:

YOUR parameters were these coaches' records with QBs other than Rodgers, Favre or Brady. What I did was just show these QB's are trash in MM's case, which is something you are saying yourself. If these QBs are garbage, why is MM's record a knock against him?

Yes, it is difficult to make chicken salad out of chicken droppings.   ;)

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Ragnar Danneskjold

Ragnar Danneskjold

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1 hour ago, Pugger said:

We never really had a chance to see how Wallace would have performed for us.  Didn't he hurt himself in his first drive after Rodgers broke his left collarbone?  Poor Tolzien had no clue what the hell he was doing.   Scott is presently not on any NFL roster.

Not exactly.  Rodgers broke it against Chicago, and Wallace got hurt in the first drive of the next game.  So Wallace had a bit over half a game.  

But your point is correct- the first time he got starter reps going into the game he basically didn't get a chance to play.

Fans overlook that Thompson wasn't very good at providing back up QB's.

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beekay414

beekay414

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Posted
9 hours ago, Packer_ESP said:

YOUR parameters were these coaches' records with QBs other than Rodgers, Favre or Brady. What I did was just show these QB's are trash in MM's case, which is something you are saying yourself. If these QBs are garbage, why is MM's record a knock against him?

My point is this...Seneca Wallace played ONE game for us and he's accountable for 21 of the 24 starts elsewhere. It significantly skews the total. Using YOUR parameters, there's not enough data on one end to make a comparison.

It's basically 3 starts vs 600. 

Either way, Mac is a goner. 

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