Pick is in, #4 Clelin Ferrell DE Clemson

[Chwf3rd25]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Not at all, I ripped the Kolton pick apart last year until I emotionally couldn’t do it anymore although came around to it eventually. Ferrell is a way better player than you are giving him credit for. He’ll be an elite run defender and ten sack a year guy absolutely unmatched leadership and charisma from any player of any position in this class. 

- Sweat’s tape is highly inconsistent and always gets stuck on blocks. 

- Burns weight is a massive issue at the nest level

- Ed Oliver is absolutely overrated. Even as a 3T his grade was not good and that comes from several sources. Plus I’ve watched about 80% of his snaps this year. First step is great, sure. Severely lacks at everything else. Oliver is a big time project. His potential is amazing, sure. I’m not drafting a project at Pick 4.

- Allen is one of the most overrated prospects in the draft in the past several. I actually think he can be very good, not great, but very good on a 3-4 team or 4-3 under hybrid scheme team like the Jags. But on the Raiders he’d suck. 

- Tillery and Devin Bush are not on the same planet as Ferrell. Hardly the same galaxy. 

Putting a Round 2 grade on Ferrell shows you just look for the flashy and exciting prospects over excellent football players. 

 

See below - I literally just went back to that thread and saw us arguing over Kolton Miller a day or two after the draft.

3 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Kind of funny I just went back to the Kolton Miller thread from last year and what do you know - you and I were arguing about that pick as well.

(For the record this pick isn't NEARLY as bad as the Kolton Miller pick but the underlying issue is the same --> picking position over player).

 

[Chwf3rd25]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:05 PM, raiders4life said:

Didn’t want to quote the post with the videos, so I quoted this. I formed my opinion on him watching the same videos you did. I’ll admit, I’m not a scout, don’t know the nitty gritty details of why one OT goes in the first, and one goes into the second. I just go off of what my eyes and instincts tell me. Maybe you can enlighten me on what those details are and I’ll be a better evaluator because of it.

 

The first thing I do when watching the OL is count the the QBs time to throw. Average snap to throw time in the NFL is something like 2.75 seconds. So if the QB has to move, gets hit, or can clearly feel pressure in 3 seconds from the snap, I blame it on the OT. If a hit/sack happens after 3 seconds I blame it on the QB. Just rewatched the entire Stanford clip again, and I counted a whopping TWO plays where Miller’s guy got past him in less than 3 seconds. One was where the rusher lined way outside of his shoulder and got around him, the other was a well executed blitz that drove him inside as the other rusher stunted out. Neither of these plays resulted in a sack. A definite majority of plays ended with Millers hands still on the his guys chest, the defender not even coming close to collapsing the pocket. In my eyes, Miller had a very good game against Stanford. That said, the right side was definitely not helping, almost every time Rosen flushed the pocket it was pressure from the right side. 

On 4/27/2018 at 9:08 AM, raiders4life said:

I think we’re too biased at this point to even argue. Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug. You will watch the video for mistakes, while I will watch for things to compliment. It’s totally unconscious at this point, but I hope you formed your opinion before you read all of the “4th rd tape” shenanigans. I guess PFF’s stats could be wrong too. Oh well, all we can do now is hope for the best, and hopefully, live happy lives away from football.. 

On 4/27/2018 at 6:48 AM, raiders4life said:

A lot of sky is falling talk in here (OT is a boring pick, I get it), but I'm going to try to spin it into a positive.

The dude only allowed two sacks in 579 snaps, (per PFF), during his first season at LT. Is he raw? Sure he is, but his measureables are out of the park good (borderline all pro according to analytics), and his inexperience may make him more pliable (the longer someone does something the wrong way, the less likely it is that he can fix it). Watching UCLA games he was basically invisible, in a GOOD WAY! He quietly did what was asked of him and did a pretty damn good job at it. Will he be ready to start right now? Who knows.. But I can guarantee he would've been the next OT off of the board and definitely wouldn't have made it out of the 1st round.

Did you honestly think the Raiders would draft a DB in the 1st after Joseph and Melifonwu last year and adding Melvin, and Gilchrist in FA? 

[raidr4life]

I just looked at some mock drafts from January of the 4 i just looked at Ferrell was mocked 6th, 8th, and 13th.

[Chwf3rd25]

12 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Not at all, I ripped the Kolton pick apart last year until I emotionally couldn’t do it anymore although came around to it eventually. Ferrell is a way better player than you are giving him credit for. He’ll be an elite run defender and ten sack a year guy absolutely unmatched leadership and charisma from any player of any position in this class. 

- Sweat’s tape is highly inconsistent and always gets stuck on blocks. 

- Burns weight is a massive issue at the next level

- Ed Oliver is absolutely overrated. Even as a 3T his grade was not good and that comes from several sources. Plus I’ve watched about 80% of his snaps this year. First step is great, sure. Severely lacks at everything else. Oliver is a big time project. His potential is amazing, sure. I’m not drafting a project at Pick 4.

- Allen is one of the most overrated prospects in the draft in the past several. I actually think he can be very good, not great, but very good on a 3-4 team or 4-3 under hybrid scheme team like the Jags. But on the Raiders he’d suck. 

- Tillery and Devin Bush are not on the same planet as Ferrell. Hardly the same galaxy. 

Putting a Round 2 grade on Ferrell shows you just look for the flashy and exciting prospects over excellent football players. 

 

Well i confused you with raider4life, my apologies.  

[raidr4life]

6 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

 

Lol that's not me. Major fail.

 

[drfrey13]

4 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

It appears we never thought much of Allen. I think the proof is in the pudding at this point.

Dude. Preach. This is why I have a bone to pick. I like Ferrell, but not as a top 5 pick. Scheme fit is important but if he is a perfect fit, and he isn't a 12 sack a year guy, then maybe the value isn't there. I acknowledge that I've beaten the trade down horse to death by now, but it's not without merit. Did we really have so much tunnel vision that we had to have him specifically? And if so, why? Are his leadership skills really more important than football skills of other high character guys who were available? I do think Oliver was a smokescreen mask the scent of desire for Q based on the emphasis on intangibles. But for the lack of value in the spot of the pick, lack of top-notch talent (most had him in the 10-15 range at best), and the seeming lack of value in the system (PG DEs are rarely, if ever, top tier)....I don't know....just not in love with the choice. Seems like we were locked into either a DE or him specifically. Granted, if Q was available then who knows

You should go to my post draft mock and submit your picks.  I want to know what everyone would want now.  That way we are using very little hindsight and can truly criticize or congratulate our FO next year.  If I can pick a couple pro bowlers and hit on 75% picks then I can talk next year but if I bust then I should not criticize to much next year.  Not saying you would try to BS us but just want to get everyone on the record here.

[raidr4life]

6 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Well i confused you with raider4life, my apologies.  

You still confused that ain't me you quoting.

[BayRaider]

Too many Raider4Life type names lol

[Chwf3rd25]

3 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

You still confused that ain't me you quoting.

why the hell do you have the same names lol

[raidr4life]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Too many Raider4Life type names lol

A swing and a miss.

[OG_C2X]

PG doesnt need a 15 sack guy. Dunlap has had double digit sacks 1 time. 

Key - Hankins/Ellis - Hurst - Ferrell is a perfect DL for PG's system. I expect 30 sacks this year and be considered an up and coming defense this time next year.

[drfrey13]

How about all of you go to the post draft mock and submit your choices and we can revisit this later.  Everyone is just going in circles.  We all have our opinions so just state what you would have done and we can revisit later.  Watch Daniel Jones, DK Metcalf, and Gary become the best players from the draft and we all look stupid.

[Rich7sena]

 

 

 

2

12 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

PG doesnt need a 15 sack guy. Dunlap has had double digit sacks 1 time. 

Key - Hankins/Ellis - Hurst - Ferrell is a perfect DL for PG's system. I expect 30 sacks this year and be considered an up and coming defense this time next year.

But that still doesn't explain the contention I and others have brought up: the player you're describing is not worth a top 5 pick.

[Chwf3rd25]

50 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

PG doesnt need a 15 sack guy. Dunlap has had double digit sacks 1 time. 

Key - Hankins/Ellis - Hurst - Ferrell is a perfect DL for PG's system. I expect 30 sacks this year and be considered an up and coming defense this time next year.

Then why are we spending a top 5 pick on it?

[OG_C2X]

1 hour ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Then why are we spending a top 5 pick on it?

Bosa and Q are the only guys "worth" top 5 picks. Unfortunately due to math 3 more guys need to be picked there.

Devin White would have been my pick but thwm i would have pushed to trade back up into the early teens to grab a pass rusher. 

Devin White and Devin Bush are off the ball linebackers. And neither of them are Patrick Willis. I personally think both are better suited as 3-4 ILB or 4-3 WLB. Devin White was my highest ranked player on my board. 

Ed Oliver is a luxury pick. Mo Hurst is a stud. No reason to pick Oliver who is better then Hurst and then not be able to play them both. 

I don't like Sweat has a late 2nd, early 3rd round grade from me. Wasn't even worth it for me at 24. 

Josh Allen is a pure ELITE 3-4 OLB. He is excellent in coverage. Is quick. Has an explosive first step. As long as he is standing up. He doesn't play with the leverage needed to be stout against the run and set the edge as a pure 4-3 DE. 

Anyone else? If there was a trade down to 7 available and it was fair value and we didnt take it then shame on us. But i don't believe Ferrell was getting passed Jacksonville. And we needed to address the edge.