Golfman Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The QB is at 9 yards of depth in the pocket. Failing on a speed rush when the QB is 9 yards deep in the pocket is not a positive thing. At all. Generally your QBs sit between 5 and 7 yards in the pocket. The QB had the ball out in about 2.1 seconds. You do have to account for all factors when deciding if it was a positive rush or not. Not many guys are getting home in 2.1 or less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: Gotten the sack. What you're supposed to do when a QB completely blows his drop depth to past his protection. Oh, ok. QB throws it in less than 2 seconds but he somehow should’ve just made it happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Just now, Golfman said: The QB had the ball out in about 2.1 seconds. You do have to account for all factors when deciding if it was a positive rush or not. Not many guys are getting home in 2.1 or less. Exactly! A hypercritical hot take about Gary's pressure on the play is agenda driven hate spin, not analysis. For analysis, it was like a 3 or 4 step drop from the shotgun with an immediate quick throw to flat four yards past the LOS. Gary did about all he could do, nice play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, deathstar said: Oh, ok. QB throws it in less than 2 seconds but he somehow should’ve just made it happen. That quick release and a more structured offense is what I attribute to keeping Brady upright and healthy thru to multiple SBs.....and to a degree at least is what I'm hoping for AR in order to keep him healthier longer. This holding the ball and running for the hills concept is a loser as he ages / slows down - which makes us all losers. He's gotta stay healthy. He's gotta get rid of the ball. Dont turn into Brady necessarily (although a few more SB appearances would be nice........) just quite trying to emulate AR circa 25 years old version. Re-investment in the OL was critical along these lines as well. ARs gotta stay healthy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Donzo said: Exactly! A hypercritical hot take about Gary's pressure on the play is agenda driven hate spin, not analysis. For analysis, it was like a 3 or 4 step drop from the shotgun with an immediate quick throw to flat four yards past the LOS. Gary did about all he could do, nice play. The guy took a 5 step drop, hit his back foot and the ball was out according to play design. Good luck getting to the guy from the EDGE if it were only a blocking dummy in front of you. One of the more ridiculous comments I've seen in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Just now, Leader said: That quick release and a more structured offense is what I attribute to keeping Brady upright and healthy thru to multiple SBs.....and to a degree at least is what I'm hoping for AR in order to keep him healthier longer. This holding the ball and running for the hills concept is a loser as he ages / slows down - which makes us all losers. He's gotta stay healthy. He's gotta get rid of the ball. Dont turn into Brady necessarily (although a few more SB appearances would be nice........) just quite trying to emulate AR circa 25 years old version. Re-investment in the OL was critical along these lines as well. ARs gotta stay healthy. Brother Leader, You know how much I love McCarthy (), but a lot of the running around is on Aaron Rodgers. I am not certain LaFleur is going to be able to coach him out of that. I hope he does because you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, deathstar said: Oh, ok. QB throws it in less than 2 seconds but he somehow should’ve just made it happen. That's one of the problems with Gary from a rusher perspective. He has no speed rush so he's never going to harass anybody on any kind of quick throw. There is no winning clean with the guy on any kind of speed rush. He's going to have to fight hands off him every time he tries for speed, and that slows you down. There are guys in this league who can win off their first step and get to that 9 yard mark without a Tackle getting a good punch on them to divert them, but Gary isn't that guy. He's never going to be that guy. He needs to do better with what he has. He doesn't have an elite first two steps and he's as flexible as a fire hydrant, so he presents a massive target that every tackle is hitting. His speed rush today consists of taking two steps up field, facing the tackle and getting punched in the chest, or taking another step up field and getting pushed past the pocket. He's doing better on this play, he actually swatted the hands which is something he hasn't been doing. The problem is that he's also going up against some dude named Brandon Parker, a genuine replacement level scrub. The only reason this looks like a pressure is that the QB is 9 yards back instead of 7. The only reason he's 9 yards back instead of 7 is that he knows he's going to throw it as soon as his back foot lands. If he's not throwing that slant immediately, he's coming forward in the pocket and Gary is going to run past him harmlessly. I'm not going to fail the guy on the rush, but to call it a close call isn't really accurate. The only guys that are going to pressure that throw are ones who can win clean with speed. Something we don't have any of on this roster. Edited August 24, 2019 by AlexGreen#20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: That's one of the problems with Gary from a rusher perspective. He has no speed rush so he's never going to harass anybody on any kind of quick throw. He doesn't have an elite first two steps and he's as flexible as a fire hydrant, so he presents a massive target that every tackle is hitting. His speed rush today consists of taking two steps up field, facing the tackle and getting punched in the chest. He's doing better here, he actually swatted the hands which is something he hasn't been doing. But the only reason this looks like a pressure is that the QB is 9 yards back instead of 7. The only reason he's 9 yards back instead of 7 is that he knows he's going to throw it as soon as his back foot lands. If he's not throwing that slant immediately, he's coming forward in the pocket and Gary is going to run past him harmlessly. I'm not going to fail the guy on the rush, but to call it a close call isn't really accurate. The guy is in his third preseason game. Playing a position he's never played. Just give it a rest until he's had a chance to learn the position. He's going to be playing inside on most passing downs when the games are real as he learns his craft on the EDGE. You making definitive statements like, 'he's never going to harass anybody on any kind of quick throw' is nauseating. You can't possibly know that, nobody can possibly know that. Quit trying so hard to be the smartest guy on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kepler Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, Donzo said: Exactly! A hypercritical hot take about Gary's pressure on the play is agenda driven hate spin, not analysis. For analysis, it was like a 3 or 4 step drop from the shotgun with an immediate quick throw to flat four yards past the LOS. Gary did about all he could do, nice play. All his takes are almost comically negative lately. I'm beginning to think it's purposeful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Golfman said: The guy is in his third preseason game. Playing a position he's never played. Just give it a rest until he's had a chance to learn the position. He's going to be playing inside on most passing downs when the games are real as he learns his craft on the EDGE. You making definitive statements like, 'he's never going to harass anybody on any kind of quick throw' is nauseating. You can't possibly know that, nobody can possibly know that. Quit trying so hard to be the smartest guy on the board. This is blatantly not true unless we're going to extend it to every rookie. Gary was an edge rusher at Michigan. That's not a disputable fact. You can say things like, well it's different when you're standing up, but the guy was tasked with chasing QBs in school. You can say that he wasn't really asked to rush the passer and instead take on blocks, true to a minimal extent. But the idea that this is some foreign transition to him is crazy. His feet are in the same spot and he's got the same task. He probably is going to get most of his reps on the interior, but god damn if we drafted a dude 12th overall to not play in anything but the pressure package, we've got problems. How many power rushers ever affect quick throws? Like, around the league? None of them. If you have to fight somebody off you, you're going to be slower than if you can stay clean. Quit trying so hard to homer it up for a dude that after 100 snaps against backups has 0 QB hits, and 0 Stops. It's not being negative to say the dude has had a lousy set of preseason games. Edited August 24, 2019 by AlexGreen#20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: This is blatantly not true unless we're going to extend it to every rookie. Gary was an edge rusher at Michigan. That's not a disputable fact. You can say things like, well it's different when you're standing up, but the guy was tasked with chasing QBs in school. You can say that he wasn't really asked to rush the passer and instead take on blocks, true to a minimal extent. But the idea that this is some foreign transition to him is crazy. His feet are in the same spot and he's got the same task. He probably is going to get most of his reps on the interior, but god damn if we drafted a dude 12th overall to not play in anything but the pressure package, we've got problems. How many power rushers ever affect quick throws? Like, around the league? None of them. If you have to fight somebody off you, you're going to be slower than if you can stay clean. I tend to agree and think the general consensus has been (and remains) that Gary's a work in progress. Minus the countermoves you and Packerraymond have been mentioning....he could become less of what we'd hope for from a #12 selection - so here's where I apply my fallback position of keener talent evaluator eyes (than mine) and trust the coaching staffs will do their jobs....kicks in for me. Fingers are crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebpackfan Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 4 hours ago, ReadyToThump said: It's not wrong to be a little disappointed that Gary didn't destroy any of these backup tackles, but it's not very alarming to me either. I will remain cautiously optimistic. Being sensible on the Internet? GTFO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Man, I have never wanted a first round pick of ours to succeed as much as Gary. I've never seen so much pessimism for a first round pick ever. What sucks is that this could very well be a three year wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The QB is at 9 yards of depth in the pocket. Failing on a speed rush when the QB is 9 yards deep in the pocket is not a positive thing. At all. Generally your QBs sit between 5 and 7 yards in the pocket. It's a 5 step drop out of shotgun, my goodness dude you're going to be unbearable when it comes to Gary aren't you? That second statement is so 1999 when we're all taking snaps from the pro I. You expect a QB to gain 2 yards of depth on 5 steps?? If a QB has his first read open on a 3 or 5 step drop, you aren't getting a sack as a rusher unless it's a monumental whiff by the OL. Gary has a sack here if this is a 7 step or he needs to move to progression#2. Dominant rep? No. Absolutely a win for Gary? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Donzo said: This is just ridiculous. Use your words to prove it otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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