2019 Packers Defense Would You Look At It? Just Look At It!

[MacReady]

Just now, coachbuns said:

You're missing PackerRaymond"s point of the post which was NE has a bunch of 1-2-3 round draft picks on their team.  Nobody said they were all pro ... however, they aren't jags either.  They do their job very well and are put there by a fantastic system.  Packers have a number of low to mid rounders at most of those positions and whether it's bad defensive scheming, jag players or a combination of those factors, this defense has been struggling.  Pettine better find out darn quick the right combination of players with a defensive scheme that shuts down the run better and quit getting gashed on "splash" plays downfield.

No, I didn’t miss the point.  It’s just not a valid point in relation to our defense.

Z. Smith - 4th.

P. Smith - 2nd.

Clark - 1st.

Lowry - 4th.

Savage - 1st.

Alexander - 1st.

Martinez - 4th.

King - 2nd.

We’ve got talent, too.  Plenty of it.  We’re using that talent in a ****ty way.

[coachbuns]

24 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

No, I didn’t miss the point.  It’s just not a valid point in relation to our defense.

Z. Smith - 4th.

P. Smith - 2nd.

Clark - 1st.

Lowry - 4th.

Savage - 1st.

Alexander - 1st.

Martinez - 4th.

King - 2nd.

We’ve got talent, too.  Plenty of it.  We’re using that talent in a ****ty way.

Apples and oranges comparison.  Point was about defensive lineman and interior line backers not secondary.  Past couple of years the Packers have pissed away a lot of draft choices in the secondary (to many) but maybe hit last year and this year drafts.  When you only have 1 - 1st round, a 2nd round and 2 - 4th's over the past same years .... that aint much.   That being said, Pettine better get his crap together and figure out what scheme fits the players he has!  

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

You try to prove me wrong and then agree with exactly what I’m saying. 

Literally this whole thing was how the Patriots have no stars on defense, and they don’t.  Then you say der Belichick plays to his player’s strengths.  Like no damn kidding.  That’s what I’ve been saying we need to do.  You know... Not expect Martinez to be able to cover backs or faster tight ends.  

Martinez gave up one completion of longer than 10 yards (grand total of 13 yards on that play) against the Chargers. Stop scapegoating Martinez. 

[MacReady]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Martinez gave up one completion of longer than 10 yards (grand total of 13 yards on that play) against the Chargers. Stop scapegoating Martinez. 

Thanks for letting me know.  Looked like he was responsible for one of the longer ones.  Regardless, the point remains, and it’s something the haters here can identify with.  Jaire keeps getting beat by Cooper (although there was one he played really well, just didn’t work), maybe give him some help.  If someone can’t cover someone, they probably aren’t going to suddenly be able to.  

[AlexGreen#20]

16 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Thanks for letting me know.  Looked like he was responsible for one of the longer ones.  Regardless, the point remains, and it’s something the haters here can identify with.  Jaire keeps getting beat by Cooper (although there was one he played really well, just didn’t work), maybe give him some help.  If someone can’t cover someone, they probably aren’t going to suddenly be able to.  

My problem with this game is that it was a lot more complicated on the replay than it was on first viewing.

We tried to play man to man in the first quarter, and our DBs got embarrassed. Savage, Alexander, Amos, Sullivan all got beat for significant yardage. None of our Safeties were up to covering Henry. 

Pettine is still the biggest failure in this grouping, but it wasn't like he could've flipped the switch and said, we're playing more aggressively now and everything will fixed

[packfanfb]

2 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

You try to prove me wrong and then agree with exactly what I’m saying. 

Literally this whole thing was how the Patriots have no stars on defense, and they don’t.  Then you say der Belichick plays to his player’s strengths.  Like no damn kidding.  That’s what I’ve been saying we need to do.  You know... Not expect Martinez to be able to cover backs or faster tight ends.  

What are Martinez's strengths though? Serious question. Every team uses ILBs to cover RBs and TEs. If Martinez can't do it, we need to find someone who can. We all thought this was going to be Burks but he might as well not even be on the team right now.

[MacReady]

2 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

What are Martinez's strengths though? Serious question. Every team uses ILBs to cover RBs and TEs. If Martinez can't do it, we need to find someone who can. We all thought this was going to be Burks but he might as well not even be on the team right now.

Every team doesn’t always put them in man or helps them when they’re outmatched in speed.  Remember how we killed the Chiefs with that?  They should have adapted.  Besides, as AG said, Martinez only gave up one pass play of 10 yards.  He did well apparently.  

[coachbuns]

Martinez is what he is ... an adequate middle linebacker who makes tackles.  He doesn't make many tackles for loss with most 3-4-5 yards past line of scrimmage.  Pass coverage on rb and te usually isn't pretty (most inside lb arent).   He's no all star by any means but he's also not a scrub.   He is what he is and Pettine must figure out ways to use his skills along with every other starter on defense.   

[AlexGreen#20]

7 hours ago, coachbuns said:

Martinez is what he is ... an adequate middle linebacker who makes tackles.  He doesn't make many tackles for loss with most 3-4-5 yards past line of scrimmage.  Pass coverage on rb and te usually isn't pretty (most inside lb arent).   He's no all star by any means but he's also not a scrub.   He is what he is and Pettine must figure out ways to use his skills along with every other starter on defense.   

TFLs from ILBs are the result of a few things:

1. Most commonly, a run to the outside that gets stretched out and leads to the RB having nowhere to go. The ILB ends up with the cleanup tackle. We don't do these because we play so soft in the box, unless Clark beats somebody, there's always at least one soft gap that teams can target reliably.

2. Broken screen passes, (standard and flare). He gets his share of these.

3. Run blitzes and you get lucky that you were assigned to blitz that gap. We don't run blitz.

4. A great read on a single gap assignment. Martinez barely gets single gap assignments. Here's almost always reading Clark and filling in the gap that Clark doesn't take while also trying to keep an eye on the opposite side B gap because we don't have a body in it.

[TheOnlyThing]

Reasons for optimism about the D after yesterday's performance/the first 10 games:

1) D is really healthy. Outside of the typical injuries affecting players at this time of the year, only Raven Greene is sidelined (have not heard if he might make a return from IR this season or not);

2) The pass rush is pretty good although heavily reliant on the Smith brothers. Fackrell seems to have flipped the script from 2018 because (to the naked eye) he seems to get pressure now and again but has only .5 sack while Gary has just 1 sack. Would be nice if one or both of them picked it up over the last 6 games and into the playoffs.

Yesterday, Kenny Clark provided much needed pressure up the middle and Lancaster cleaned up with a sack after Z flushed Allen. They both have 1.5 sacks on the season. Unfortunately, Lowry, M. Adams, and Keke (on far fewer snaps than the prior 2) have a combined ZERO sacks and have not generated much interior push this season.

3) The return of Campbell to the S/ILB role seemed to greatly benefit the team. Considering it was his first game of the season and that McCaffrey & Olson are damn good players, Campbell appeared to accord himself fairly well. Perhaps more importantly, his presence allowed Amos to return to his S position, which made an obvious and positive impact on the back end.

4) Pettine's scheme yesterday was both far more aggressive (beautiful blitz call for Savage who blew the sack on Allen) and more dedicated to stopping the run. I really have no idea what happened in LA (hope it was just a one off), but the defensive plan, while certainly not perfect, was much improved and with a nearly full complement of players at his disposal hopefully Pettine remains on his game the rest of the season.

The team is currently ranked 12th in opponent's points per game at 20.5. if we remain healthy and get some contributions from some of the under-performers, it is still not out of the realm of possibility for this to be the Packers' first top 10 defensive unit since 2010.

[gopackgo247]

3 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Reasons for optimism about the D after yesterday's performance/the first 10 games:

1) D is really healthy. Outside of the typical injuries affecting players at this time of the year, only Raven Greene is sidelined (have not heard if he might make a return from IR this season or not);

2) The pass rush is pretty good although heavily reliant on the Smith brothers. Fackrell seems to have flipped the script from 2018 because (to the naked eye) he seems to get pressure now and again but has only .5 sack while Gary has just 1 sack. Would be nice if one or both of them picked it up over the last 6 games and into the playoffs.

Yesterday, Kenny Clark provided much needed pressure up the middle and Lancaster cleaned up with a sack after Z flushed Allen. They both have 1.5 sacks on the season. Unfortunately, Lowry, M. Adams, and Keke (on far fewer snaps than the prior 2) have a combined ZERO sacks and have not generated much interior push this season.

3) The return of Campbell to the S/ILB role seemed to greatly benefit the team. Considering it was his first game of the season and that McCaffrey & Olson are damn good players, Campbell appeared to accord himself fairly well. Perhaps more importantly, his presence allowed Amos to return to his S position, which made an obvious and positive impact on the back end.

4) Pettine's scheme yesterday was both far more aggressive (beautiful blitz call for Savage who blew the sack on Allen) and more dedicated to stopping the run. I really have no idea what happened in LA (hope it was just a one off), but the defensive plan, while certainly not perfect, was much improved and with a nearly full complement of players at his disposal hopefully Pettine remains on his game the rest of the season.

The team is currently ranked 12th in opponent's points per game at 20.5. if we remain healthy and get some contributions from some of the under-performers, it is still not out of the realm of possibility for this to be the Packers' first top 10 defensive unit since 2010.

while those are good reasons to be optimistic they still gave up 400+ yards with a 100 yard runner, 100 yard receiver and 300 yard passer.  The only stats that matter at the end of the day are in the Redzone (CAR went 2-4) and the turnover margin (+2 in favor of GB).  those are not stats i would like to hang my hat on.  we are still seeing a bend but dont break defense in play. 

That wont work vs SF. they will convert their red zone opportunities and they dont turn the ball over. if the defense cant get off the field vs the Niners it will be a LONG day. Shanahan is not opposed to running up the score either so it could end up being an embarrassing day. 

 

while a better(ish) effort on Sunday, i still dont feel good about this defense going up against a good offense. 

[TheOnlyThing]

I knew Clark was better on Sunday, but I did not realize how much better he was:

 

[TheOnlyThing]

59 minutes ago, gopackgo247 said:

while those are good reasons to be optimistic they still gave up 400+ yards with a 100 yard runner, 100 yard receiver and 300 yard passer. 

I agree the D still has much to prove, but yesterday's performance, at least in my mind, provides some grounds for optimism.

If we could get Martinez and Lowry to just play up to their 2017 & 2018 standards that would go a long way in improving this D.

[KFP7]

5 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

I knew Clark was better on Sunday, but I did not realize how much better he was:

 

So is Carolina a bunch of scrubs on the interior line, or is Clark back?

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

2 hours ago, KFP7 said:

So is Carolina a bunch of scrubs on the interior line, or is Clark back?

Without looking back at the game, I believe they were thinking they would make the backup QB beat them, so they put more players into the box.  

Clark, like any big guy on the line, will look better in a one gap instead of a two gap assignment.  It looked to me like he was freed up to attack, as opposed to having to play a more conservative two gap technique.

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Ragnar Danneskjold