2020 NFL Draft Thread

[Mr Raider]

50 minutes ago, TheMadStork said:

Let me back up. It’s not that I don’t believe he’s a first round talent..he’s just not a player I’d want for where he’s going to get chosen, way too rich for me.

dropping back to 10-20 and choosing a combo of:

1. Brian Burns 

2. Jeffrey Simmons 

3. Devin Bush

Past 20:

4. Darnell Savage 

It’s hard to say that it was not a option, maybe not for what we were asking.

Cam Jordan had elite college tape IMO. IMO Clenin Ferrell had one game where he looked like he should be a top 10 pick (coincidently it was in the national championship game) which sounds odd..but where was that play the rest of the season. This is just my opinion, and I watched a lot of Ferrell last year. 

Why do you believe Josh Allen was not a fit? I never understood how someone who can play DE and get to the QB is not a fit for us?  He was not a liability against the run in college. I actually felt his college tape reminded me a lot of Khalil Mack. Was Khalil Mack not a fit for us when we drafted. 

I’m also not saying Mayock is bad at drafting. I’m saying I hope Gruden has no influence on the draft because I think he has a bad eye for talent judging by how bad the drafts were while he was on the bucs and listening to him on espn. 

But i am saying that I think the jury is still out for our 1st round, and how Mayock/Gruden did..I see little to be real optimistic in Ferrell (top 4 pick), Abram played 1 game, and Jacobs was a safe rb pick (which Did not take much draft analyst) 

Not saying your wrong. Friendly football convo. Good post by you. 

 

 

I disagree that landing a guy like Jacobs at 24 didn't take scouting ability in a major way. He obviously showed talent, but he had a much smaller workload and sample size than any RB i can remember going in the top 25 picks in recent memory. A lot of people claimed there wasn't a first round worthy back in the draft last year, including Jacob's. People said he lacked homerun ability, and wasn't used much as a pass catcher, and they knocked him for not getting a heavy workload like most franchise capable backs get in college. 

And it's not like Jacobs played ok or so so. He was amazing prior to the injury. He was the only consistent every week in our offense. You might have thought Jacobs was an easy evaluation, but it wasn't a super common belief that he was going to be worth a first round pick.

Ferrell will be fine. I won't knock a GM with a roster in need of talent everywhere for taking a safe approach with one of his three first round picks. Ferrell was super proven in college. He was as productive as they come, a tremendous leader, and a lot of big game experience and he showed up in those big games. Abram getting hurt is hard to knock Mayock for. Injuries happen. It's not like he had some extensive medical red flags and the obvious happened. And he was fantastic in that one game. If he comes out and plays like a star this season Mayock will be praised. Plus finding Max is simply a steal. It's entirely possible we found a top 5 RB for the next 5+ years, a fifth round pick that had double digit sacks in year one when most considered him raw. A long term starter at CB, DE and safety. And that's assuming none of those guys become stars when I think all are capable. Mayock deserves praise for last years draft, exactly how much is still TBD obviously, but it wasn't a draft we should come away from freaking out about Mayocks ability. 

[Trojan]

Are you guys taking Tua at 12 if he falls to there? Like with the shutdowns of meeting with prospects and all that maybe there are concerns with medicals or general less than normal comfort with his situation and if Chargers pass on QB to grab a LT and target someone like Hurts in the second, and if Miami goes Herbert there's an outside chance that Tua makes it to 12. If he is there, do you take him (assume Carr starts as Tua concerns expect a year off and we are using Carr/Mariota regardless)?

Like if the draft goes:
1. Cin: Burrow
2. Was: Young
3. Det: Brown
4. Nyg: Becton
5. Mia: Herbert
6. Lac: Thomas
7. Car: Simmons
8. Ari: Wirfs
9. Jax: Okudah
10. Cle: Wills
11. Nyj: Jeudy

Same scenario, do you sell the pick to a trade up? Are you pissed in 3 years if Tua is a top 5 QB that we traded down?

Edited March 21, 2020 by Trojan

[Rich7sena]

2 hours ago, Trojan said:

Yeah and it took time for Maxx to gain weight and Ferrell got sick and lost 15 pounds, and now their is chatter about Clelin struggling. I don't think the issue fixes with Josh Allen over Clelin and long term if we aren't using Josh Allen at OLB I'm not upset. I think it will work out as is.

My point was that Allen was only 2 lbs. lighter than Ferrell at the combine. Allen was the superior prospect and should have been the pick regardless of "scheme fit."

[Steins Gate]

3 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

My point was that Allen was only 2 lbs. lighter than Ferrell at the combine. Allen was the superior prospect and should have been the pick regardless of "scheme fit."

Agreed. But Mayock has his own drafting style that includes perceived positive character traits. He seemingly values those traits above talent. 

[Trojan]

Just now, Rich7sena said:

My point was that Allen was only 2 lbs. lighter than Ferrell at the combine. Allen was the superior prospect and should have been the pick regardless of "scheme fit."

I wanted Josh Allen too, but a year later I'm not mad at the selection of Ferrell. I liked Bosa (top 1), Allen (top 5) and Sweat (top 10) all more than Ferrell, but Ferrell was still a first round pick for me right around 15th prospect overall and I'm happy we got Ferrell over Gary who could have been argued for "scheme fit". I don't think a healthy Gary with Maxx would have been bad either and in general I'm happy we got two defensive ends in that class.

2018 we could have had Derwin James, Harold Landry and Orlando Brown 123 -- I'm more mad at that given all three were guys most of the board liked -- Landry even went at the pick we traded down from in the 2nd.

[Rich7sena]

5 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I wanted Josh Allen too, but a year later I'm not mad at the selection of Ferrell. I liked Bosa (top 1), Allen (top 5) and Sweat (top 10) all more than Ferrell, but Ferrell was still a first round pick for me right around 15th prospect overall and I'm happy we got Ferrell over Gary who could have been argued for "scheme fit". I don't think a healthy Gary with Maxx would have been bad either and in general I'm happy we got two defensive ends in that class.

2018 we could have had Derwin James, Harold Landry and Orlando Brown 123 -- I'm more mad at that given all three were guys most of the board liked -- Landry even went at the pick we traded down from in the 2nd.

My main beef with Ferrell is that he's just wasn't/isn't special enough talent for merit a 4th round selection. If things go as planned, the Raiders shouldn't be picking that high for the foreseeable future, and I think taking a guy like Ferrell is a major whiff at a rare opportunity.

Ferrell was already fighting for playing time by season's end on a team not exactly loaded with pass rushers. With the addition of Nassib, who by my estimation is a better player than Ferrell and at least as talented, it's only going to get harder for Ferrell to see the field.

Conversely, I believe Allen will be a premier pass rusher by next season. He got 12 sacks in part-time duty by sheer strength and explosiveness.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Rich7sena

[BayRaider]

15 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Are you guys taking Tua at 12 if he falls to there? Like with the shutdowns of meeting with prospects and all that maybe there are concerns with medicals or general less than normal comfort with his situation and if Chargers pass on QB to grab a LT and target someone like Hurts in the second, and if Miami goes Herbert there's an outside chance that Tua makes it to 12. If he is there, do you take him (assume Carr starts as Tua concerns expect a year off and we are using Carr/Mariota regardless)?

Like if the draft goes:
1. Cin: Burrow
2. Was: Young
3. Det: Brown
4. Nyg: Becton
5. Mia: Herbert
6. Lac: Thomas
7. Car: Simmons
8. Ari: Wirfs
9. Jax: Okudah
10. Cle: Wills
11. Nyj: Jeudy

Same scenario, do you sell the pick to a trade up? Are you pissed in 3 years if Tua is a top 5 QB that we traded down?

There’s no chance Tua gets past Pick 6 (I think he’s a Top 3 lock actually, with a team trading up). But if he’s there at Pick 12, I’m running to the podium. He is going to be a Top 5 QB in the NFL.

[MrOaktown_56]

33 minutes ago, StocktonSav said:

I agree. Hopefully he'll be undervalued and overlooked because of his below average measurables and "bend" that people focus on too much imo. But to me his hand usage and effort make him a clear upgrade over Key as the DE4.

I even think he's a candidate to one day rush inside. Can never have too many pass rushers.

[Steins Gate]

I wouldn't mind trading up for Okudah. As long as we aren't trading the house. A solid to good player can be had at most other positions in the lower rounds. 

[MrOaktown_56]

Bob McGinn wrote an amazing article for the athletic pooling together quotes from scouts.

On Kinlaw:

"I’m not a Kinlaw fan for where he’s going to go,” said another scout. “He’s huge, but he tries to do everything with just his upper body. He doesn’t have very good feel for the game. More of a straight-line, gap-charging, try-to-bull-you guy. Doesn’t have much movement or feel or hand use. He has those (bust) traits where he just tries to outmuscle and out-power everybody. You just don’t see the production. He’s just really a flash player.”

Derrick Brown:

“Plays with his hands very well. He played violent. Excellent short-area change of direction. He’s a power-rush guy with some gap explosiveness. He doesn’t come out of the game much, which is surprising to see for a big guy like that. If you want a DT, he’s the guy.”

He’s more powerful and more instinctive (than Javon Kinlaw),” said one scout. “Brown’s a different bird now. Just the power and quickness and athleticism. He doesn’t get enough credit. He was up and down with his motor the previous year, but he sucked it up this year.”

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, Steins Gate said:

I wouldn't mind trading up for Okudah. As long as we aren't trading the house. A solid to good player can be had at most other positions in the lower rounds. 

Agreed. I’m willing to trade up to 8 for Okudah if he’s still there (very possible). I’m not willing to trade up for Simmons, even though I think he’s a terrific player. CB is our biggest need by far and I think Okudah is better than Simmons as a prospect. 

[Steins Gate]

Just now, BayRaider said:

Agreed. I’m willing to trade up to 8 for Okudah if he’s still there (very possible). I’m not willing to trade up for Simmons, even though I think he’s a terrific player. CB is our biggest need by far and I think Okudah is better than Simmons as a prospect. 

I wanted Simmons badly until we got some LBs is FA. Now a CB1 is our biggest need. 

[MrOaktown_56]

On Jaylon Johnson:

“There were some games he wasn’t even getting challenged. He’s a starting No. 1 corner right now. There’s not a whole lot of holes in him.”

"The Pac-12 isn’t the SEC, but there were some games he just looked bored"

[BayRaider]

@MrOaktown_56 I had Kinlaw falling to 22 to the Vikings in my latest mock. 
 

Before his senior bowl hype, Kinlaw was constantly mocked 17-24 range. 
 

I’ve noticed throughout the years, the rankings you see in Early-Mid January are usually much more in line with the real rankings. 
 

The media bends a lot of truths and adds a lot of hype from Feb-April. 

[Rich7sena]

I'm not a big Jaylon Johnson fan. He moves like he's taller, longer, and heavier than he actually his. Also, I generally prefer better movement skills over size and length. Johnson's play seems to more lean to the latter.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Rich7sena