Matts4313 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, WheatieMan said: With that said... we need to get rid of Dak. There are plenty of veterans than can hold down the fort. I would go with Stafford or Cam if McCarthy can adjust... if the money is right. If it's 35 vs 15 it might be worth it. Especially since we won't be locked down with other guys as opposed to signing Dak long term. We don't want another Wentz situation on our hands. We can use the resources elsewhere. Hell, even Cousins knows the division well enough. Unless we have a really deep draft board where they can take need and strength together, it's unlikely you will get any immediate contributor straight out of the draft next year. If the money is 2:1 Dak vs the other guys, I would consider a Drew Brees/SD type of deal. Just let him go. If they can wiggle the money around and get that annual ratio down for the next 2-3 years, then sign him by all means, but I'm inclined to move on so long as our O-line doesn't have career threatening injuries this off season. Et tu brute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, WheatieMan said: it's unlikely you will get any immediate contributor straight out of the draft next year. 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatieMan Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) On 1/5/2021 at 4:42 PM, Nextyearfordaboyz said: 🤔 Where are we drafting? 10-15? I would obviously look at 2ndary or DT, depending on what we are running on defense next year. At this point, given the success of older QBs in the league, I think you can get away with a veteran for a 2-3 year window. I think TB is the model. If you have the offensive pieces but not the QB, you can get by with a veteran QB at the right price. I don’t know what Brady is making this year, but a rental like Stafford (for a 3rd round pick or so) or Matt Ryan is worth taking a shot. We’d still need a backup though. Dalton can’t be back as a backup with his price tag. Is there a cap hit for a franchise trade? The only way we franchise Dak is if we plan to trade him. You cannot evaluate him properly without spending any money on defense. Trade him to the Colts (2nd and 4th rounder?) or Steelers. Edited January 10, 2021 by WheatieMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) You said we are unlikely to get an immediately contributor are #10, when we got immediate contributors at #17 and #50, and big rookie contributions from #82 and #146. I think it’s pretty likely we draft at least 1 immediate starter in this draft, if not several more. @WheatieMan Edited January 10, 2021 by Nextyearfordaboyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 hours ago, WheatieMan said: Where are we drafting? 10-15? I would obviously look at 2ndary or DT, depending on what we are running on defense next year. At this point, given the success of older QBs in the league, I think you can get away with a veteran for a 2-3 year window. I think TB is the model. If you have the offensive pieces but not the QB, you can get by with a veteran QB at the right price. I don’t know what Brady is making this year, but a rental like Stafford (for a 3rd round pick or so) or Matt Ryan is worth taking a shot. We’d still need a backup though. Dalton can’t be back as a backup with his price tag. Is there a cap hit for a franchise trade? The only way we franchise Dak is if we plan to trade him. You cannot evaluate him properly without spending any money on defense. Trade him to the Colts (2nd and 4th rounder?) or Steelers. I cant tell you how much I disagree with everything here including your guesses on cap and draft cost. Stafford makes like $30m. Matt Ryan is $45m next year. Brady is making ~$35m this year - $20m from the Bucs and ~15m from the pats. Any QB that gives us a glimmer of hope of winning a superbowl is going to start at ~$25m/yr. These guys would likely cost a 2nd or a 1st in a trade. Dak would go for a 1st, easily. Probably multiple 1st rounders. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want money to fix the roster, get rid of Jaylon, Zeke and Dlaw. Thats about $50-60m/yr and our team wouldnt miss them much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 Ben Roethlisberger $41,250,000 22.79% 2 Matt Ryan $40,912,500 23.01% 3 Aaron Rodgers $36,352,000 20.29% 4 Drew Brees $36,150,000 20.17% 5 Carson Wentz $34,673,536 17.65% 6 Jared Goff $34,625,000 19.03% 7 Matthew Stafford $33,000,000 17.56% 8 Russell Wilson $32,000,000 18.06% 9 Kirk Cousins $31,000,000 17.37% 10 Ryan Tannehill $29,500,000 16.52% 11 Tom Brady $26,625,000 14.97% 12 Jimmy Garoppolo $26,205,882 14.79% 13 Patrick Mahomes $24,806,905 13.82% 14 Alex Smith $24,400,000 12.70% 15 Teddy Bridgewater $23,000,000 12.84% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I cant tell you how much I disagree with everything here including your guesses on cap and draft cost. Stafford makes like $30m. Matt Ryan is $45m next year. Brady is making ~$35m this year - $20m from the Bucs and ~15m from the pats. Any QB that gives us a glimmer of hope of winning a superbowl is going to start at ~$25m/yr. These guys would likely cost a 2nd or a 1st in a trade. Dak would go for a 1st, easily. Probably multiple 1st rounders. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want money to fix the roster, get rid of Jaylon, Zeke and Dlaw. Thats about $50-60m/yr and our team wouldnt miss them much at all. Agree with almost everything here, but unless I’m reading the contracts wrong on OverTheCap, I don’t think we can save money this year by cutting Tank or Zeke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: Agree with almost everything here, but unless I’m reading the contracts wrong on OverTheCap, I don’t think we can save money this year by cutting Tank or Zeke? If its accurate a post June 1 trade would net us $17m for Dlaw and $9.5m for Zeke. But either way, with how we can manipulate contracts, even if we did a standard cut, it adds $40m in 2022, ~$43m 2023. $83m over those 2 years gives us the flexibility people are craving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatieMan Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I cant tell you how much I disagree with everything here including your guesses on cap and draft cost. Stafford makes like $30m. Matt Ryan is $45m next year. Brady is making ~$35m this year - $20m from the Bucs and ~15m from the pats. Any QB that gives us a glimmer of hope of winning a superbowl is going to start at ~$25m/yr. These guys would likely cost a 2nd or a 1st in a trade. Dak would go for a 1st, easily. Probably multiple 1st rounders. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want money to fix the roster, get rid of Jaylon, Zeke and Dlaw. Thats about $50-60m/yr and our team wouldnt miss them much at all. I may be overestimating the value here, but surely the veterans will have to restructure a bit. No way Ryan is getting that kind of money. If Pitt trades for Dak and gives up their late 1st, I feel we can get Stafford for a 2nd and a player or a later pick and plug him in there if the money is say 20-25 per year. We can get rid of Zeke as well but we’d still need to draft another RB. He’d be willing to restructure I feel. The thing with him and Jaylin is that they’ve been on the field in recent years more often than not. Same with DLaw. Games played should count for something, and they can always bounce back with better schemes and coaching. I wouldn’t jettison those guys as we don’t have replacements on the roster. Restructure perhaps. With Dak versus an older veteran, it’s about accelerating the window to 1-2 years and then rebuilding a new with a different coach after this cycle ends. Keeping Dak may extend the window a couple more years assuming he’s healthy and productive. Just depends on the money. I don’t think he’s worth 35 a year. Just keep Dak out of the NFC and secure another top NFC QB that can contend. Brady and TB is the blueprint. Edited January 10, 2021 by WheatieMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: If its accurate a post June 1 trade would net us $17m for Dlaw and $9.5m for Zeke. But either way, with how we can manipulate contracts, even if we did a standard cut, it adds $40m in 2022, ~$43m 2023. $83m over those 2 years gives us the flexibility people are craving. I must be reading it wrong, because OTC shows no impact to the cap on a post June 1st cut for both of them, and a loss of cap space pre-June 1. I do understand it give you cap space in future years regardless. Either way, Zeke and Jaylon might both be addition by subtraction, but I disagree that we wouldn’t miss Tank. Maybe he’s slightly overpaid, but he’s still a dang good football player, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: I must be reading it wrong, because OTC shows no impact to the cap on a post June 1st cut for both of them, and a loss of cap space pre-June 1. I do understand it give you cap space in future years regardless. Either way, Zeke and Jaylon might both be addition by subtraction, but I disagree that we wouldn’t miss Tank. Maybe he’s slightly overpaid, but he’s still a dang good football player, IMO. I was looking at trade not cuts, sorry. I would assume we could get something for them, even if its really low. As for tank, depending on what measure you use he is between the ~25th-100th best DE in the league. He is top 5 paid. Thats not a slight overpay. Thats like saying Dak is worth $30m a year, but we are going to pay him 5x's that and pay him $150m/yr Edited January 10, 2021 by Matts4313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 29 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I was looking at trade not cuts, sorry. I would assume we could get something for them, even if its really low. As for tank, depending on what measure you use he is between the ~25th-100th best DE in the league. He is top 5 paid. Thats not a slight overpay. Thats like saying Dak is worth $30m a year, but we are going to pay him 5x's that and pay him $150m/yr You think Tank is paid literally 5x too much? That he’s only worth $4 million per year? Our defense as a whole is terrible. It’s not fair to compare his productivity to players who are surrounded by other top players and part of good overall differences. The guy is still pretty clearly our best defensive player, IMO, and he’d easily top the Robert Quinn contract of $14M in the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 31 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: You think Tank is paid literally 5x too much? That he’s only worth $4 million per year? He is probably worth about $10m/yr, but he would get ~$15m on the open market. 31 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: Our defense as a whole is terrible. It’s not fair to compare his productivity to players who are surrounded by other top players and part of good overall differences. The guy is still pretty clearly our best defensive player, IMO, and he’d easily top the Robert Quinn contract of $14M in the open market. We have had him for 6 years. He has, what, 1 top tier year, 1 good year and 4 average to below average years? Quinn outplayed Dlaw last year. I anticipate Randy is going to out play him in the future. Also - being the best player on a horrific defense isnt brag worthy. It just makes him the king of sheet mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: He is probably worth about $10m/yr, but he would get ~$15m on the open market. We have had him for 6 years. He has, what, 1 top tier year, 1 good year and 4 average to below average years? Quinn outplayed Dlaw last year. I anticipate Randy is going to out play him in the future. Also - being the best player on a horrific defense isnt brag worthy. It just makes him the king of sheet mountain. I didn’t say he was the greatest player in the world. I said I disagreed with the notion that we wouldn’t miss him. PFF had him as a 2nd team all Pro this year. He regularly leads this team in splash plays. We’d clearly miss him. Exactly where you want to rank him, whatever arbitrary “dollar value” you want to assign to him, I’ll leave those unfulfilling debates up to someone else. But this is clearly a different category than Jaylon, who is a total liability that OCs target and Zeke, who is an average-at-best player at a dime-a-dozen position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: I didn’t say he was the greatest player in the world. I said I disagreed with the notion that we wouldn’t miss him. PFF had him as a 2nd team all Pro this year. He regularly leads this team in splash plays. We’d clearly miss him. Exactly where you want to rank him, whatever arbitrary “dollar value” you want to assign to him, I’ll leave those unfulfilling debates up to someone else. But this is clearly a different category than Jaylon, who is a total liability that OCs target and Zeke, who is an average-at-best player at a dime-a-dozen position. I guess the question, especially in this thread, is could we replace his 6 sacks with the $21m/yr? Im not saying Dlaw is bad. I am just pointing out that if we are having debates about replacement value, he should be a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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