Patriots WR Josh Gordon reinstated

[nextsuperstar1]

9 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

He needs CONSEQUENCES.  Consequences must be immediate and certain or they have no effect on behavior.  If you want to help Josh, you have to get him to change his behavior.  All the league is doing by letting him back in after just TWO games, is set him on the path of destruction.  My heart goes out to his family who is ultimately going to be left being the ones who have deal with Josh's self destructive behavior.  Josh has been given multiple chances to get himself back to the league, and has shown that the league is not best place for him again and again.  My sympathy for Gordon has come to a close.  

Punishment is not a way to deal with addiction. Treatment is how you deal with it. You could arrest every addict, but they will still be addicted. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by nextsuperstar1

[DoleINGout]

3 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

Any other team and this doesn't happen...

Could say the same thing for "deflated" footballs.

[seminoles1]

4 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

Any other team and this doesn't happen...

Are you actually implying that the Patriots get preferential treatment from Roger Goodell?

[PatriotsWin!]

5 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

Any other team and this doesn't happen...

Goddell/NFL has screwed the Pats more times than I can count. Implying he'd cut the Pats a favor is... uninformed. I think the NFL is changing how they treat serious mental health issues / addiction issues. Keeping the affected player around his team / their support can keep that player on tract. Letting him fight his addiction alone is the worst they could do. Besides, if the NFL can go easy on a player that beat his small child and girlfriend, they can certainly cut the guy that smoked some weed a little slack.

[Superman(DH23)]

3 hours ago, nextsuperstar1 said:

Punishment is not a way to deal with addiction. Treatment is how you deal with it. You could arrest every addict, but they will still be addicted. 

Yes treatment is the way to treat addiction.  We arent talking about the addiction, we are talking about the choices he is making.  Relapse is part of recovery, but relapse isnt just shrugged off either.  Any halfway decent treatment program is going to incorporate choices and consequences.  Somebody doesnt get better just because they say they want to and then just continue to relapse over and over again.  Consequences are fundamental to changing behavior.

[MWil23]

Hopefully he teaches TB12 how to party.

[TheGame316]

2 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Yes treatment is the way to treat addiction.  We arent talking about the addiction, we are talking about the choices he is making.  Relapse is part of recovery, but relapse isnt just shrugged off either.  Any halfway decent treatment program is going to incorporate choices and consequences.  Somebody doesnt get better just because they say they want to and then just continue to relapse over and over again.  Consequences are fundamental to changing behavior.

What do you think missing the end of last season was? He was immediately suspended and had to apply for reinstatement, doing so only by continuing to participate in treatment/recovery

 

Relapse isn't a choice. He didn't just sit back and think, man, I could really use a blunt right now. Whatever his demons are, they surfaced again last season and he self medicated

 

The best example would be this. Convince yourself that Oxygen is illegal and then hold your breath. Embrace the Discomfort that eventually leads to Panic. See how long you can go before the fact that Oxygen being illegal isn't that much of a priority for you anymore and the only thing on your mind is breathing. When you finally take a breath notice how much better you feel and the problem that you were having, Discomfort and Panic is gone.

Thats what it's like for addicts and those who treat their mental illness (whatever it may be ) with drugs/pills or alcohol

 

There is a difference in the guys who recreationally use for fun, and just hope to not get caught, and the guys that are doing so because of a mental condition

[Hunter2_1]

On 16/08/2019 at 11:46 PM, hornbybrown said:

Good luck Josh, I really hope you succeed this time.

 

Josh Gordon is a good person with demons. I question the morality of anyone who doesn’t hope for the best for someone trying to overcome their demons 

Coz drugs are bad! Rahhh!! 

Good post Horny, I'm sure we all have vices or things we struggle to give up/get over that are detrimental to us or those around us. Even if it's something psychological.

 

That said, my expectations are very LOW. The key is to not expect anything - then even just suiting up is a bonus. Go well flash.

[Hunter2_1]

21 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

He needs CONSEQUENCES.  Consequences must be immediate and certain or they have no effect on behavior. 

I'd say losing a few million dollars is pretty consequential, and probably losing any sponsorships he may have had? Having said that, that would change MY life, not necessarily an NFL players'. 

[Superman(DH23)]

1 hour ago, PatriotsWin! said:

Goddell/NFL has screwed the Pats more times than I can count. Implying he'd cut the Pats a favor is... uninformed. I think the NFL is changing how they treat serious mental health issues / addiction issues. Keeping the affected player around his team / their support can keep that player on tract. Letting him fight his addiction alone is the worst they could do. Besides, if the NFL can go easy on a player that beat his small child and girlfriend, they can certainly cut the guy that smoked some weed a little slack.

If all they were doing is allowing him to be around the team, so that he could have that support system and stay involved that would be fine, but allowing him to fully participate just is completely the wrong message.

[Superman(DH23)]

11 hours ago, TheGame316 said:

What do you think missing the end of last season was? He was immediately suspended and had to apply for reinstatement, doing so only by continuing to participate in treatment/recovery

 

Relapse isn't a choice. He didn't just sit back and think, man, I could really use a blunt right now. Whatever his demons are, they surfaced again last season and he self medicated

 

The best example would be this. Convince yourself that Oxygen is illegal and then hold your breath. Embrace the Discomfort that eventually leads to Panic. See how long you can go before the fact that Oxygen being illegal isn't that much of a priority for you anymore and the only thing on your mind is breathing. When you finally take a breath notice how much better you feel and the problem that you were having, Discomfort and Panic is gone.

Thats what it's like for addicts and those who treat their mental illness (whatever it may be ) with drugs/pills or alcohol

 

There is a difference in the guys who recreationally use for fun, and just hope to not get caught, and the guys that are doing so because of a mental condition

An addict doesnt need your excuses.  And if think bc somebody is an addict they dont make a choice, man you really have no clue.  The problem with your analogy is I need oxygen to live.  An addict.doesnt need drugs to live.  You would have been better off using mtn dew or coffee, or something else that people enjoy.  Addicts make choices man, choices that hurt themselves and others around them.  They are selfish, more interested in the fix, than what happens or who it effects.  

[Hunter2_1]

4 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

An addict doesnt need your excuses.  And if think bc somebody is an addict they dont make a choice, man you really have no clue.  The problem with your analogy is I need oxygen to live.  An addict.doesnt need drugs to live.  You would have been better off using mtn dew or coffee, or something else that people enjoy.  Addicts make choices man, choices that hurt themselves and others around them.  They are selfish, more interested in the fix, than what happens or who it effects.  

Hope you never develop an addiction. 

[Superman(DH23)]

13 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Hope you never develop an addiction. 

I have and am continually overcoming it.  I've also watched my daughters mother spiral around the drain and ruin her relationship with our daughter bc she doesnt care enough to fight.  I'm sorry but you are seriously barking up the wrong tree here

[Hunter2_1]

9 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

I have and am continually overcoming it.  I've also watched my daughters mother spiral around the drain and ruin her relationship with our daughter bc she doesnt care enough to fight.  I'm sorry but you are seriously barking up the wrong tree here

So it's confusing that you're the one with no sympathy toward this guy then. You also mentioned the lack of consequences above, but didn't comment on the loss of millions ?

[G]

2 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

If all they were doing is allowing him to be around the team, so that he could have that support system and stay involved that would be fine, but allowing him to fully participate just is completely the wrong message.

Being around your team mates I think is needed for those who are suspended. Just don't let them play in the games that count. Practice, pre-season gets you in football shape. Then with that support reevaluate and allow him to play. Doubt that's a big thing for either side discussing the CBA but if they actually cared about the players as people it would be addressed.

I'm fine with him being back but don't think the time suspended was enough being he struck out long ago. (3 strikes plus)

 

DH23 is spot on. I worked a little with these populations (Addicts and mental health) and I'm NOT a 12 stepper at all. I'm not  former addict but met many counselors who were addicts themselves and the way they talked it's no wonder so many don't get better. With drugs I worked with youths 13-17 and I was shocked how much they liked and respected me. They asked how was I able to experiment in my youth and not become addicted. It's because I love having control over my life. I wouldn't want anyone or anything having control over me. Now we can make choices of allowing control for relations (partners/friendships/career) as that's a part of living a more fulfilling life. Compromise, consequence, action/reaction, understanding and learning patience and discipline.  I'm still working on these myself but make improvements. However I'm not working at a specific job because I lost my patience (different field from the ones mentioned above) but it was a good job with people who just didn't get it. So I can't go back to that specific employer. Josh is lucky that his name adds value to his potential employer still. It also comes as society is shifting is legal stance on some specific substances. This makes the NFL look good if Josh turns it around and if he doesn't they gave him yet another opportunity when they don't have to. Josh would bring minimal money but GREAT PR to the league and that's why it's a shorter suspension IMO. The sooner he's back the longer the good PR will be. If he fails to stay clean then the PR dies down until he asks for another chance. Great PR is worth more than gold and the NFL needs so feel good PR to counter the not so good PR.

Hopefully Josh stays clean. Gets some money for the next few seasons and tucks it away to secure a good future for himself. Demons don't always go away but a secure future will help to battle them on a rainy day.

He will be fun to watch as he's very talented. Josh or no Josh won't affect Brady much. The guy will feed you if you're there and giving him what he wants (your all) Gronk will probably come back for the playoffs and we can all curse them after winning another SB. The Pats are a machine with a system in place for a long time that just replaces the parts while 1/3 on the teams restart with new coaches every season and expect to have continuity and topple the machine?!? That's the problem and why they keep winning and we keep whining...

Edited August 18, 2019 by G