Chasing Great: Week 1, On to GB

[AZBearsFan]

If this isn’t something new (and I’m assuming it isn’t) then one would think either Nagy & Co. have a ton of confidence in a healthy Shaheen or they have a ton of confidence in being able to scheme around Burton’s absence when it doesn’t pop up after the game plan is already installed. If not they would have almost had to have kept another TE. 

[beardown3231]

1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said:

If this isn’t something new (and I’m assuming it isn’t) then one would think either Nagy & Co. have a ton of confidence in a healthy Shaheen or they have a ton of confidence in being able to scheme around Burton’s absence when it doesn’t pop up after the game plan is already installed. If not they would have almost had to have kept another TE. 

Maybe he'll practice tomorrow and this will all be forgotten about 🤷🏻‍♂️

[malagabears]

 

[abstract_thought]

Given Pace's offseason approach to the position, I was already expecting a shift toward 11 personnel. With Burton out, that will likely happen immediately. The Bears have the WR depth to pull this off and it will take a lot of pressure off the combination of Shaheen/Braunecker/Sowell.

[JAF-N72EX]

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Given Pace's offseason approach to the position, I was already expecting a shift toward 11 personnel. With Burton out, that will likely happen immediately. The Bears have the WR depth to pull this off and it will take a lot of pressure off the combination of Shaheen/Braunecker/Sowell.

Nagy's scheme is already built around a heavy use of 11-personnel. Almost all offenses are because of the individual match-ups. Nagy just uses it alot more than the average do. Now if you mean that you expect to see more 11 without Burton then I agree 100%. We saw the same thing happen against the Eagle w/o Burton in the playoffs when Nagy ran 74% of those plays from 11 versus the 64% he ran in total in the regular season. 

I'd like to see the more athletic Braunecker being used in those obvious long yardage passing situations like 2nd/8 and long, 3rd/7 and long, etc. And big-bodied Shaheen being used in obvious run situations like 3rd/5-6 just to mix things up a bit. Maybe even a run a few plays from 21 in those 3rd/5-6 just to confuse Pettine a bit and give Mitch more options by using Shaheen on chip/release routes and Braunecker in immediate routes.

But more to your point, yeah, the Bears have the depth and skill-set at the WR position to pull it off anyhow, and like I said, Nagy's offensive game plan is already built around the 11-personnel and he already often switches it up by exchanging the traditional responsibilities of both the Y receiver and TE positions. He will have Burton line up and run a route that is usually saved mostly for Y's, and use his Y's (mostly Miller if it's a stacked formation like a 3x1 for instance) to run routes that are usually saved for most athletic TE's.

On plays where Nagy A TE like Burton with a small frame can be substituted for WR's such as; Wims, Ridley and hell even Robinson--which he did use at times as well.

So even if he doesn't use the type of formula that I suggested above in the same ways by utilizing both Braunecker and Shaheen, I think it'll be fine. Because like you said, we have the personnel at WR to make it work either way. This is what I love about the structure of the offensive skill positions that Pace has put together these last 2 years because it offers so much versatility that makes an offensive coordinator's job so much easier to work with even when those inevitable injuries rear their ugly faces.  

[soulman]

8 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Seems as though we may get to test my belief that Nagy can scheme for a Burton absence with our surplus at WR when given time to do so sooner than anyone would have liked. 

And in my mind he needs to do just that.

I can see why he wants to protect Burton as much as possible simply because he is so much of a key to Nagy's scheme but as time passes what's happening with him begins to seem odd.  Is Nagy protecting him or is he one of those guys whose just very slow to recover?

Theoretically guys like Wims or even Patterson might be used in that same role and I really like Horstead's prospects for replacing Burton once he has a better understanding of the schemes and his role.  So unlike the playoff game now we should be better prepared for it.

[dll2000]

I think Nagy can't run the offense consistently without a TE on the field. It just doesn't work because you can't have two short edges to the QB.  So someone will be out there 75% of time.  

That being said, I think it's never focal point because you can't rely on Shaheen and Burton to be available and Braunecker just isn't good.  It's fine as long they can occupy someone on every play and they are decent when healthy.

I would play just one at a time and if I go heavy bring in Sowell.  

[dll2000]

3 hours ago, soulman said:

Theoretically guys like Wims or even Patterson might be used in that same role and I really like Horstead's prospects for replacing Burton once he has a better understanding of the schemes and his role.  So unlike the playoff game now we should be better prepared for it.

Theoretically they could, but I bet Wims and Patterson don't know the plays for the U.

Not everyone is a heady guy who learns all the positions.  Those guys aren't a dime a dozen.  

Allen Robinson and Cohen are two guys you can teach a bunch of stuff for example. Outside of QB I don't know who else on team is like that.  Burton I think, but he is guy you are trying to replace ironically.

[soulman]

14 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think Nagy can't run the offense consistently without a TE on the field. It just doesn't work because you can't have two short edges to the QB.  So someone will be out there 75% of time.  

That being said, I think it's never focal point because you can't rely on Shaheen and Burton to be available and Braunecker just isn't good.  It's fine as long they can occupy someone on every play and they are decent when healthy.

I would play just one at a time and if I go heavy bring in Sowell.  

Braunecker may turn out better this year than we've previously imagined him to be.  As it stands he's Burton's backup on the depth chart so he should at least get some opportunities early on to show what he's got.  The athletic ability is there just not the production so far.

But we also need Shaheen to step up in the red zone and the WRs to cover for Burton.

[topwop1]

18 hours ago, dll2000 said:

That's not good.  

These TE's are really getting on my nerves with their inability to stay healthy.

C'mon Trey let's get going already. 

[AZBearsFan]

7 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Theoretically they could, but I bet Wims and Patterson don't know the plays for the U.

I disagree strongly with this. Anyone who knows the slot position knows much of what a U does in our passing game. We run many of the exact same plays out of different formations with different guys running those same routes Burton runs. It’s not as though in/out/drag/slant/hook/post routes are unique to the U position. 

Also, a healthy Adam Shaheen has quite a bit of athletic ability. While there are legitimate questions about his durability over the course of a 16-game season there is zero question that he is 100% healthy heading into this week’s game. We drafted him with the idea that from a skill set standpoint he can fill this role. 

[AZBearsFan]

The idea that after how the playoff game played out last year the Bears are going into week 1 without a legitimate contingency should Burton be unavailable is pretty crazy to me. Pace and Nagy are nothing if not thorough. Just because we haven’t seen their contingency plan in practice yet certainly doesn’t mean that a viable one doesn’t exist. We probably should have a little confidence in your coach of the year and should-have-been GM of the year, no? Did they not earn any benefit of the doubt last year at all? 

[beardown3231]

14 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

The idea that after how the playoff game played out last year the Bears are going into week 1 without a legitimate contingency should Burton be unavailable is pretty crazy to me. Pace and Nagy are nothing if not thorough. Just because we haven’t seen their contingency plan in practice yet certainly doesn’t mean that a viable one doesn’t exist. We probably should have a little confidence in your coach of the year and should-have-been GM of the year, no? Did they not earn any benefit of the doubt last year at all? 

They certainly do. I'm more concerned about Burton continuing to miss time, Shaheen inevitably getting hurt & Braunecker probably not being very good. They can get away with this for a game or two but trying to get through the majority of the year without Burton would be tough.

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I disagree strongly with this. Anyone who knows the slot position knows much of what a U does in our passing game. We run many of the exact same plays out of different formations with different guys running those same routes Burton runs. It’s not as though in/out/drag/slant/hook/post routes are unique to the U position. 

Also, a healthy Adam Shaheen has quite a bit of athletic ability. While there are legitimate questions about his durability over the course of a 16-game season there is zero question that he is 100% healthy heading into this week’s game. We drafted him with the idea that from a skill set standpoint he can fill this role. 

I just don't know.  I don't have their terminology and playbook.  I just know what it looks like when they do it, but I don't know all their reads and responsibilities.     Nagy says it takes at least a year to learn the inside receiver roles.  Why I don't know, it isn't rocket science, but these guys aren't rocket scientists either.    I haven't seen Wims line up inside and this is Patterson's first year here.  

Nagy says the outside is easier to learn.  It seems to me like it should all be easy, but obviously some guys struggle.  Even Miller said he made a lot of mistakes last year and just did it at full speed.  He said he feels better about things this year.   Remember after draft Nagy said he was going to teach Ridley outside first because inside was harder.  But Ridley was playing inside right away.  Apparently he can handle it.  Burton said it took him a long time to learn his position when he first got here.  He said guys were going to struggle early.  

I think the inside U routes are a lot of option concepts that can break in different ways depending on position of defender.  Might even be block and release to option route.   Or the option is block or run a route depending on defense.   Maybe conceptually it's easy, but hard to execute at speed.   

I do agree 100% they are going to have answers if teams take away Burton.   They had a full offseason to think about that one.

I also agree that I think Shaheen will be better than people think.  Maybe not yet though, because he missed a lot of practice.  

 

[dll2000]

I would love to sit in on the install.