Krauser Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 The Vikings basically use 2 different, complementary WR3/WR4s: a slot (or sometimes flanker) receiver and a split end / X receiver (with Thielen moving to the slot). The X receiver has been used more as the WR3 the last 2 years, when it was Treadwell in that role (and the slot role was Jarius Wright in 2017 and Aldrick Robinson in 2018). Both years, Treadwell ended up losing snaps and targets as the year went on, and he was effectively benched by the end of 2018. I don't think the team necessarily wanted Treadwell to get that much run last year, but Kendall Wright who they brought in to be the slot/flanker WR4 was a bust in training camp and didn't make the team. This year, I think they were always planning to move on from Treadwell. The expectation coming into camp was for Jordan Taylor to play the X role and Beebe the slot. But Taylor apparently lost some of his catch point effectiveness with his year off for injury/surgery, and didn't make the team. Bisi Johnson is the only other receiver on the team who could take that role, and he did look good in preseason, but it's hard to depend on a 7th round rookie to hold down a regular spot in the rotation. Plan C might have been Zylstra (though he was used more as a slot/flanker with the 2nd team, which had Johnson and Treadwell playing the X), but they moved on from him too. Doctson of course is the receiver the Vikings planned to draft in 2016 to play the X starting role in the first place. It was supposed to be a WR1 position, not WR3, since Thielen hadn't emerged as more than a depth/special teams receiver by that point. Doctson has a limited skill set -- he's not a great route runner, not especially good at beating press, and not especially fast. But he's amazing at contested catches and so he can produce running go/fade routes, and change-ups for those routes (comebacks, outs, curls, double moves). I think the Vikings will want to use Doctson as early as week one. They might not be able to give him the full playbook, especially route combinations out of bunch formations or with a lot of movement, etc. But they can line him up in X iso on one side of the formation, with a bunch or heavier formation on the other side, and get him to run vertical routes outside the numbers. Given that any unbalanced formation opposite Doctson is likely to include 3 of Thielen, Diggs, Irv and Rudy, you can bet most teams will need to shade safeties to that side, and/or put their top corners on the Vikings top 2 receivers. That should leave Doctson with some matchups against CB2 or even CB3 level coverage, mostly without safety help. Cousins can throw a couple up in his direction per game and he'll have a chance to do what he does best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 21 hours ago, vike daddy said: @Woz, what's it all mean? make sense of the madness.... Is he better than Treadwell? Probably. Is he good? Eh ... not really. During his time here, he never showed the ability to break away from corners, either by speed or by technique/route running. Yes, he can catch those amazing 50/50 balls, but he can also drop somewhat easy passes. It's a double-edged sword. I was on board with trying to trade him, but the market didn't seem to be there. I'm not all that heartbroken that they just up and released him either. If he rekindles some sort of form with Cousins, more power to you guys. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in him though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 20 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: Doctson has a good chance to be a "needed a change of scenery" guy. Injuries, decent season for a back-up, then playing with garbage QB's for a season. If he can give us 600 and 4 or 6.....that'd be a win for our #3 WR......and about double Treadwell's career stats And that's about what I would pick for him, to be honest. 40-45 catches, 550-600 yards, 4-5 TDs ... sounds like a Doctson-like season. As a #3 for you guys, that's great. When you're getting that as his #1? Not so much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, Woz said: And that's about what I would pick for him, to be honest. 40-45 catches, 550-600 yards, 4-5 TDs ... sounds like a Doctson-like season. As a #3 for you guys, that's great. When you're getting that as his #1? Not so much. He might struggle to even be the #3 "WR" in terms of targets, we're going to see a lot of 2 TE sets. He will be directly competing with Irv Smith for playing time. Could see a lot of options for this offense in the redzone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 18 hours ago, Cearbhall said: I haven't seen Ameer Abdullah hate. Most people just don't see his role on the team as being all that important. As far as #4 RBs go he seems to be a fine #4 RB. Personally, I just don't see the need to carry a 4th RB. When RBs get hurt there always seem to be options available. Did you see the Rams pull a guy off the street last year when Gurley got hurt and have him put up numbers that were just fine. Maybe not as good the numbers a healthy Gurley would have gotten, but then again no #4 RB would put up numbers as good as a healthy Gurley would put up. As far as what Abdullah did in college, that hardly matters in the pros. That has a lot to do with where a guy is drafted. Where a guy is drafted relates to how many opportunities a team might give a guy before giving up on him. Other than that, it has nothing to do with their value in the NFL. Abdullah was already cut by the team that drafted him. His value in the NFL right now is unrelated to his college production. I would say that is true of most professions too. Doing good in college will help you get the first job but beyond that all that matters is work experience and how you are doing on the job. I have not bragged about how I did in my entry level religion class or brought up my GPA that was falsely high after being puffed up by cream puff classes when I have interviewed for jobs. Indeed, if a candidate that I was interviewing that had multiple years of previous experience in the field started answering the interview questions largely based on some classes he did well on in school he would not get the job. I would try to steer the candidate back to answers based on work experience a time or two maybe but that is it. It matters less and less what you did in school once you have been in an industry for much time. That is the same for football players. This is why Tim Tebow didn't last in the NFL. College football is the minor league of the NFL until there becomes another football league to develop talent and currently there is none. People that say what a player does in college means nothing are usually people that do not watch prospects in college and thus do not care about it because they know little to nothing about it. Thus them saying it is stupid, it is worthless or whatever. But to pretend it means nothing to the development of the player is insane. The people that are in the decision making positions of the NFL, yeah they pay attention to college football. It is called college scouting and is a giant part of a NFL teams success. By the way I hated Tim Tebow as a QB prospect and questioned his passing ability big time in college. Great leader no doubt but was a far better runner than passer, amazing leader but lacking elite level QB arm talent. Most simply do not care about the college game. Just because you do not care does not mean it means nothing at all, because you might know nothing about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I don't think he's saying it means nothing. I think he's saying that as a player spends more time in the NFL, college performance becomes less relevant. Which is true. Abdullah has been in the NFL for 5 years. He is what he is at this point. His college production is irrelevant. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 46 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: He might struggle to even be the #3 "WR" in terms of targets, we're going to see a lot of 2 TE sets. He will be directly competing with Irv Smith for playing time. Could see a lot of options for this offense in the redzone. Eh, maybe. It never seemed to pan out for Washington (see @Thaiphoon and my's comments about him seemingly unable to get separation from corners). Good luck to him and to you guys. I don't have any ill will towards him, but I'm not sure you'll get a lot out of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: I don't think he's saying it means nothing. I think he's saying that as a player spends more time in the NFL, college performance becomes less relevant. Which is true. Abdullah has been in the NFL for 5 years. He is what he is at this point. His college production is irrelevant. If college products matters, Treadwell wouldn't have busted so hard. Abdullah isn't a significant enough upgrade as a KR to warrant taking up a 4th RB spot. Just doesn't make sense, especially when Boone is effective as a runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 wow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidvikingfan Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 If you thought they didn't have faith on Pat Elflein you would be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 A fan of the signing, not of the corresponding move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 *raises his hand* As the non-Viking fan here, can someone explain to me the Elflein vs. Jones thing? (honestly asking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Elflein has regressed and performed poorly since the end of his rookie season. Brett Jones came in and played decently, and during the preseason was the highest graded Vikings lineman by PFF. Cutting your best backup at a position of weakness just doesn't seem like a smart move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, JDBrocks said: Elflein has regressed and performed poorly since the end of his rookie season. Brett Jones came in and played decently, and during the preseason was the highest graded Vikings lineman by PFF. Cutting your best backup at a position of weakness just doesn't seem like a smart move. Hmm ... can Jones play guard at all? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidvikingfan Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Woz said: Hmm ... can Jones play guard at all? He was our top interior depth lineman most of last year so yes he can play guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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