GDT Week 3: Denver Broncos @ Green Bay Packers

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Same old story. I thought we showed improvement in a tough environment. The Offense, for what it was asked to do, was precise for large portions of the game and we looked good on 3rd down for a change.

The Defense, whilst not creating turnovers, did well when not given a short field and it was good to see Bausby take his chance.

However, we saw once again that this team is not good enough to beat up on itself. We simply don't have the quality to commit 3 giveaways without a single takeaway, especially in our own half. Without those giveaways, I firmly believe we win that game. We also aren't good enough to compensate for officiating cost us 4 points either. That Sanders holding call is as bad as that Chubb RTP call last week.

That Fant fumble was a back breaker and also a bit worrying in my eyes. Rookie mistakes like running the wrong route and getting overpowered by 280lbs NFL vets I can live with, but not tucking the ball, carrying it loosely in one hand on the SAME SIDE as where the contact is coming from is the sign of someone who isn't an instinctive Football player in my eyes. Either truck the guy (you're 50lbs heavier) with the ball tucked, or switch the ball into your right hand stiff arm the guy. It was a truly awful play by Fant, especially when he had the 1st down by like 3 yards anyway.

As for the Offense as a whole - again, I was impressed with our efficiency but like I've said for an eternity - we aren't a precise, efficient enough team to dink and dunk our way to wins. We'll hold on the OL, we'll drop balls and we'll throw errant passes. This team NEEDS chunk plays to score points. When you've got single coverage outside like we see ALL the time on 1st down, Throw. It. Deep. It sure beats running an injured Royce Freeman for 2 yards on 1st down (Freeman was very poor again, too). Even if we're very good on Defense I question whether we could win this way, so with our Defense struggling to turn the ball over, we just won' win in this manner.

I will get to look watch All 22 this week so I look forward to looking at the OL.

I thought Joe played well for what we're asking him to do. Him holding the ball too long with poor movement in the pocket is what he's done his entire career so that isn't surprising. But, he played well on 3rd down for large parts of the game and if we didn't turn it over, we'd be looking at a good outing for where we are as a team right now.

On the whole, I expected a loss and we were more competitive than I thought we would be.

Re: Fant it’s worrisome if it’s a lack of game IQ.  But it’s also possible he’s in the rookie phase where the game speed seems like it’s a million miles an hour to him.  Even for Iowa’s pro system prep the jump to NFL speed is a steep one.  He’s been used to being the freakiest guy on the field now he’s playing against guys just as fast or faster.    It’s definitely part of the risk with Rd1 TE’s year 1 is almost always a lost year mostly dedicated to adjustment to the pro level. 

 

[iLikeDefense]

I thought freeman played well considering he was playing with a hurt shoulder. He did shy away from contact a few times but he still ran hard a few times. 

[broncos67]

I'm not shocked that we lost. I am, however, shocked at the lack of pass rush and takeaways by the defense.

I see a lot of flowery nonsense from the beat writers and MHR blogs, but the reality of the situation here is that Denver is 0-3 and the schedule isn't really THAT much easier as time goes on. 

All in, I think the offense performed well for what they were asked to do, but frankly, you cannot dink and dunk your way to relevance in the NFL today. It's exactly why Denver is adept at racking up yardage, but cannot find a way to score points when it matters. Denver needs to re-do this entire offense, IMO, from the philosophy through the personnel. Having an immobile QB with nothing but dink-dunk, is going to score us 17PPG. That's been our ceiling over the past 6 games or so with largely the same philosophy. 

Defensively, the team comes up with stops, but no pressure and turnovers isn't going to win you anything in the NFL. We are what we are. This team is largely a reflection of Elway's miserable drafting over the years, and a more recent propensity to play everything safe in terms of roster construction. Lack of innovation in coaching, personnel, etc...this is what you get.

For me personally, I will continue to beat the drum that Denver is better off in the long-run going down a path of playing Flacco until Lock is healthy, and then playing him and seeing what we have. The absolute hands-down worst mistake we could make is to go with Flacco all year, never see what we have in Lock, have a top 5 pick, and pass on a QB. it would be exactly the kind of move I'd expect Denver to make, but it would set us back another 10 years (IMO).

[thebestever6]

13 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

For me personally, I will continue to beat the drum that Denver is better off in the long-run going down a path of playing Flacco until Lock is healthy, and then playing him and seeing what we have. The absolute hands-down worst mistake we could make is to go with Flacco all year, never see what we have in Lock, have a top 5 pick, and pass on a QB. it would be exactly the kind of move I'd expect Denver to make, but it would set us back another 10 years (IMO).

Agree with this entire piece I'll bang that drum to death.

I disagree with your dink and dunk takes. The passes Flacco leads guys to catch and run really work masterfully Lindsay is a prime example. I don't think his ball placement is successful enough in general. Our line has to be retooled and offense stocked with weapons.

Edited September 23, 2019 by thebestever6

[Broncofan]

20 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Agree with this entire piece I'll bang that drum to death.

I disagree with your dink and dunk takes. The passes Flacco leads guys to catch and run really work masterfully Lindsay is a prime example. I don't think his ball placement is successful enough in general. Our line has to be retooled and offense stocked with weapons.

If we dink and dunk all game long, the D will simply take it away by bringing up the coverage and blanketing / jumping the short route trees.   They take away the short stuff, the OL has to hold the blocks a half beat longer for Flacco to work through his progressions, and then we know the result (a sack/pressure, or worse, a TO).  Verticality is needed to spread the D out to make the short game (and run game work).     Flacco's best part of his game is his vertical passing.   

We don't have to overhaul the O completely, but not having any real vertical threat to our game makes us so easy to defend.   It's the same concept that @lomaxgrUK keeps beating the drum about passing on 1st down - we don't need to do it all the time, but we can't be so predictable in our run-1st down like we were vs. CHI & OAK early in the game.     Predictability is a death sentence to O's, especially when there isn't a talent gap to our advantage.

P.S.  Agree 100 percent when Lock is ready, we need to play him as much as possible and see what we have.  But the concept we can succeed with a dink and dunk game is a fallacy.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Predictability is a death sentence to O's, especially when there isn't a talent gap to our advantage

Oh, I agree with that take but until the line is solidified, and a deep threat or weapon or two is brought in here I can't kill the scheme. 

The one play they tried to go deep on Wilkinson got turnstiled and let up a fumble. 

[lomaxgrUK]

51 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

I thought freeman played well considering he was playing with a hurt shoulder. He did shy away from contact a few times but he still ran hard a few times. 

Guess we will have to agree to disagree here. I thought he left so many yards on the field with his cut decisions.

[thebestever6]

14 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

If we dink and dunk all game long, the D will simply take it away by bringing up the coverage and blanketing / jumping the short route trees.

Do we have the line play right now to execute double moves for the d jumping the short routes? Doubt it

There was a play where the packers showed an aggressive blitz play and dropped into zone and Flacco looked soooo uncomfortable. 

[jsthomp2007]

Didn't seem like an entirely bad loss.  I do see improvement on the team.  The defense looks great.  I know they didn't record any sacks but I think there is a reason for that; Rodgers was throwing the ball away as soon as he saw the pass rush and no open receivers.  Also, the running game looks amazing.  I think what lost that game was the offensive line and turnovers...and really wish Lock was available because he couldn't do any worse than Flacco.  For a 16-year vet, I don't get why Flacco thinks it's cool to hold onto the ball.  In today's NFL with defenses getting faster, we need a QB who can get out of the pocket to buy time...Flacco will just hang in there till he gets rocked and fumbles that leads to points for the other team. 

Although I don't think the Broncos fair will this year, but I predict down the stretch they will get it together.  I still think this team could go 8-8.  

[Broncofan]

17 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Do we have the line play right now to execute double moves for the d jumping the short routes? Doubt it

There was a play where the packers showed an aggressive blitz play and dropped into zone and Flacco looked soooo uncomfortable. 

Double moves aren't the only way to have a vertical move, though.  Post routes, go routes, etc.   RB wheel routes on a LB as they motion out.   The point being that you have to take some deep shots.   The double moves are just one way of doing it.  We sadly probably don't have the OL play to pull that off regularly.   But that isn't the only method available.   Ultimately if we don't have some threat of verticality - it only makes the short game easier to defend.   Balance, leveraging our best matchups and unpredictability are the best weapons we can use until our talent is better across the board.   

On that last line's note - I like that OC Scangarelli is getting the feel for the matchup part, he really used Lindsay to full use, which seems obvious - but it's the deployment to the flats and isolating him vs. GB's ILB's that was notable.  It wasn't just run him up the gut / off-tackle like we saw last year.   GB's weakness was in the flats, and Scangarelli went at it hard.   It was a very encouraging sign in Scangarelli's development as an OC game planner and caller.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

22 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Post routes, go routes, etc

I'd like to see Fant on a go route up the seem one time with an intermediate route as the second read. 

I hope when Lock comes in they run some RPOs because that would of been very effective last game I just don't think Flacco is effective at it.

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, thebestever6 said:

I'd like to see Fant on a go route up the seem one time with an intermediate route as the second read. 

I hope when Lock comes in they run some RPOs because that would of been very effective last game I just don't think Flacco is effective at it.

It's hard to use RPO when the QB is a statue lol.  I do think Scangarelli would love to incorporate that with a more mobile QB as he had JimmyG / Beathard / Mullens use it in SF.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

Side note - Elway should definitely NOT use the money saved on the Flacco restructure now, even for an extension.  Just let the money roll over to 2020, so if we do part ways with Flacco, it a 0 sum gain (yes it's a 11M cap hit, but we have 11M more cap space).    Flacco could stay, he could go - but we should have no cap considerations influencing the decision if we just let the money roll over to 2020.

Frankly, no one on this team who's coming up as a UFA as done anything to merit an extension, given where we're at, they aren't difference makers for us now.  I say that with nothing but love for what Shelby Harris did last year - but in this scheme, the whole front 7 has underwhelmed.  And that goes 10x for Wolfe given his mileage (love the guy, warrior mentality...but no way he's worth keeping at vet market prices, even if it was 7-8M AAV - and it's more likely to be 10-12M AAV).

Edited September 23, 2019 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Elway should definitely NOT use the money saved on the Flacco restructure now, even for an extension.  Just let the money roll over to 2020, so if we do part ways with Flacco, it a 0 sum gain (yes it's a 11M cap hit, but we have 11M more cap space). 

Only guy I see life in is Simmons that possibly warrants an extension. 

What if we take on a poor contract in a trade to get a pick? Or a young unproven offensive weapon in a Von Miller trade package? Give Lock more to work with

What's the deadline to extend players?

[Broncofan]

 

23 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Only guy I see life in is Simmons that possibly warrants an extension. 

What if we take on a poor contract in a trade to get a pick? Or a young unproven offensive weapon in a Von Miller trade package? Give Lock more to work with

What's the deadline to extend players?

Sure, but only if it's a team-friendly extension.   There is no real deadline for extensions for players in their final year of a rookie contract, it's really up to the team/player.   The only restrictions are for guys in their first 2 years (UDFA's) /  first 3 year (drafted players, so guys from 2017 draft - won't be a problem with us, LOL) - that's Dec. 30th as the earliest date to begin negotiations.  So the 2nd year contract for UDFA restriction matters for Lindsay, doubt we do it, but the earliest we could talk is Dec. 30th.  For guys like Simmons, we can talk anytime.

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2019-20-important-nfl-dates/ - see December for the blurb that explains the above.

I would still want him to prove it for more than 3 games, though.   We saw major regression as the season went on with Simmons, I want to see it stick for at least a half-season in Fangio's system before I even consider it.  Everyone else, a big no thank you.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Broncofan