GDT Week 3: Denver Broncos @ Green Bay Packers

[broncos67]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Agree with this entire piece I'll bang that drum to death.

I disagree with your dink and dunk takes. The passes Flacco leads guys to catch and run really work masterfully Lindsay is a prime example. I don't think his ball placement is successful enough in general. Our line has to be retooled and offense stocked with weapons.

But like I said, dink and dunk is working to amass yards, but we aren't scoring points. At the end of the day, that's what success is measured by. At some point, perhaps Denver will better utilize Fant/Sutton in the red zone, but there's basically zero creativity once the field shortens, and that's a problem

[lomaxgrUK]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Do we have the line play right now to execute double moves for the d jumping the short routes? Doubt it

There was a play where the packers showed an aggressive blitz play and dropped into zone and Flacco looked soooo uncomfortable. 

That's why the good teams throw on 1st down. Teams aren't going to send pass rush blitzes on 1st down vs 12 personnel. If they do, then take advantage in the run/screen game.

It's so much easier to read Defenses in early downs. The reason teams don't do it is because they don't want to fall behind in the down which I get to an extent, but the stats show how difficult it is to run on 1st down across the NFL.

[thebestever6]

@broncos67, @lomaxgrUK I agree with the sentiment to throw earlier, and once this team crosses the opponents 40 the drive stalls.

How much is it due to lack of a true number one wr? I don't think Sanders is at this stage, I also don't think ideally Sutton is a number one long term more like an upper tier number 2. 

A burner would be nice to have but a guy who commands double teams, is a beast in the redzone would also be a luxury this team hasn't had since 2013. 

To throw early with our personnel you have to be confident a guy can win early and quickly. Sutton is improving but he's not there yet.

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by thebestever6

[thebestever6]

We're relying on a second year Sutton and Rookie te to be our big play threats. This offense functioned 100% with a Julio Jones in Atlanta. 

If I'm Elway I'm scouring the league for young wrs with somewhat of a ceiling to give Lock a chance to succeed. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by thebestever6

[MakeDenverGreatAgain]

52 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

We're relying on a second year Sutton and Rookie te to be our big play threats. This offense functioned 100% with a Julio Jones in Atlanta. 

If I'm Elway I'm scouring the league for young wrs with somewhat of a ceiling to give Lock a chance to succeed. 

You also had Matt Ryan playing at high-level during that time. Let's not compare Matt Ryan of 2013-2017 with Joe Flacco of 2019. I also disagree with the sentiment that Sutton can't be a number one receiver. He has the physical tools and has shown playmaking ability and ability to create and get open. He isn't a number one yet, but I think with a solid season and another year of development he definitely has that potential.

The big issue is our lack of a playmaker/safety blanket in the slot. Hamilton is quickly playing himself out of a job. We need someone that can consistently run away from man coverage and settle down in the zone to pick up first downs, especially in this style of offense. 

 

[thebestever6]

16 minutes ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

You also had Matt Ryan playing at high-level during that time. Let's not compare Matt Ryan of 2013-2017 with Joe Flacco of 2019

Not comparing Joe to Matt Ryan I will say year two is when he showed real growth in that offense. Joe is clearly a stopgap though.

I think we can agree, outside of Sutton drafting wrs has been well below average in recent history(Henderson, Latimer, Mckenzie, etc.)

I would not be surprised if a move was made to get a young guy in here if we decide to move on from veteran players and an optimal pick return isn't met for those players.

[MakeDenverGreatAgain]

19 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Not comparing Joe to Matt Ryan I will say year two is when he showed real growth in that offense. Joe is clearly a stopgap though.

I think we can agree, outside of Sutton drafting wrs has been well below average in recent history(Henderson, Latimer, Mckenzie, etc.)

I would not be surprised if a move was made to get a young guy in here if we decide to move on from veteran players and an optimal pick return isn't met for those players.

It's funny because Mckenzie actually hasn't been that bad in Buffalo and at least is a serviceable player for them and has had moments where he looks like the player that we expected he could be in Denver.

The problem is that young weapons are at a premium in today's NFL. Teams aren't willing to give up on those players, so the draft is really the only opportunity, barring overpaying in FA or striking lightning in a bottle stealing someone from a practice squad, to get one of those players. As you mentioned, drafting hasn't been a strong suit for Denver since Elway took over.

I also think part of it is when things are bad, everything is exemplified. When things are good, it seems like some teams can't do wrong, like the Chiefs for instance who just keep finding playmaker after playmaker.

[broncos67]

Get a dynamic young QB, and everything else will materialize. We have had immobile, often physically limited QBs for what feels like decades. A QB like Mahomes makes things happen by virtue of his mobility. Denver is trying to win with a playbook from an era that has passed them by. 

[thebestever6]

27 minutes ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

When things are good, it seems like some teams can't do wrong, like the Chiefs for instance who just keep finding playmaker after playmaker.

Mckenzie is a 5th option at best. Comparing Joe Flacco to Matt Ryan is a more fair comparison to comparing anyone to the Chiefs Patrick Mahomes type atmosphere right now.

The guy is on pace for 6,000 yards without arguably his best weapon. lets not sell him short generational talent.

[AKRNA]

Interesting fact. We're the first team defense in the last 50 years that has gone through 3 games without a sack or TO.

[BroncoBruin]

13 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Interesting fact. We're the first team defense in the last 50 years that has gone through 3 games without a sack or TO.

It's an issue and every QB has played really smart football to limit those opportunities. Eventually, the defense is going to take advantage of a QB's bad day but it's very concerning that they aren't creating those opportunities themselves. I actually liked the design of quite and few of their rushes yesterday, particularly in the 3rd quarter. The scheme is being executed, the players just aren't making plays. It's also very obvious which positions the front office has taken no steps to solidify. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by BroncoBruin

[Broncofan]

2 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

It's an issue and every QB has played really smart football to limit those opportunities. Eventually, the defense is going to take advantage of a QB's bad day but it's very concerning that they aren't creating those opportunities themselves. I actually liked the design of quite and few of their rushes yesterday, particularly in the 3rd quarter. The scheme is being executed, the players just aren't making plays. It's also very obvious which positions the front office has taken no steps to solidify. 

Cough *ILB* Cough

The thing is, the Fangio scheme makes the ILB the cornerstone of the D in funneling the run and pass coverage short-intermediate with their zone scheme.  That unfortunately actually plays into Jewell's weakest part of his game.  He's still a solid contributor, but he's more a supporting cast type guy in this D (and wasn't supposed to the lynchpin).  The problem is, the scheme really exposes how bad our ILB play is.  Corey Nelson was an abomination after Jewell got hurt.  And Todd Davis is a pure classic 2-down thumper, he's completely lost in space - which the scheme requires the ILB's to be comfortable with. 

That bad ILB play then negates the pass rush - because the short stuff is free and open for the QB's to attack, and get rid of the ball in 2-2.5 secs - negating our EDGE's.   Now that's also on the EDGE's to recognize when a blocking TE peels off the block - and Chubb and the other ILB's have missed on that count several times in Week 2.   The DE's and EDGE's aren't also getting their hands up in the lanes to make the short stuff harder to defend, they're used to getting to the QB in time, they aren't used to getting their hands in passing lanes, which is what the Fangio scheme calls for inside.   So it really compounds the problem.   Either way, though - no excuses.   The D isn't getting it done at an elite, or even "good" level in pass rush or short stuff pass defense.   Ugh all around. 

[thebestever6]

29 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Interesting fact. We're the first team defense in the last 50 years that has gone through 3 games without a sack or TO.

I've heard this stat at naseum to the point it's not interesting anymore lol just alarming. It's also magnified due to the first time in history a player making close to 20 million in the front 7 to be a sack specialist, magnified by a player who left in free agency who is leading the league in sacks.

The criticism isn't going away justifiably until Miller is traded or the unit starts making plays. It's the nature of the business.

Questions I have as a fan. 

-why can't we adjust the system for a couple of games just to Flaunt Miller? Show he still has it?

Is it not that easy?

Aren't schemes supposed to adjust to players short term?

Edited September 23, 2019 by thebestever6

[Broncofan]

10 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I've heard this stat at naseum to the point it's not interesting anymore lol just alarming. It's also magnified due to the first time in history a player making close to 20 million in the front 7 to be a sack specialist, magnified by a player who left in free agency who is leading the league in sacks.

The criticism isn't going away justifiably until Miller is traded or the unit starts making plays. It's the nature of the business.

Questions I have as a fan. 

-why can't we adjust the system for a couple of games just to Flaunt Miller? Show he still has it?

Is it not that easy?

Aren't schemes supposed to adjust to players short term?

Fangio's scheme actually puts Chubb into the Mack role, and puts Von in the Leonard Floyd role.  It's why ppl were saying Chubb was going to be the next big thing this year.   Frankly, he's not been the problem, but he's not really shown that he can be the Batman (instead of the Robin to Von's Batman - well right now, they're more the Adam West Batman & Robin lol). 

Not that they can't switch, but that's how it's been set up.   Either way, neither guy can be happy with the production so far.

[BroncoBruin]

This really isn't the ideal scheme to be built around two EDGEs and it's why I think it's almost a waste for everyone if they don't eventually trade Von. Justin Hollins is a pretty good fit for the Floyd role, he's a fluid athlete with some bend and can probably do the job fine with development. You feel okay with Malik Reed as the primary reserve behind them. There's no question this defense is better right now if we had a great 3-Tech or linebacker instead of the second edge rusher.