DirtyDez Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: In 09 Favre got Minnesota Viking'd. That's that. I watched that Deep Rewind youtube series about that game and didn’t remember how nuts it’s was even before the end. All of the fumbles and big penalties plus the physical nature of it. I forgot about the delay of game before the pick taking them out of FG range. That game was on drugs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 He was legit terrible in 05 and 06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The short answer is that Favre's career after those 3 MVP years is highly overrated. Its hard to be elite in the NFL. Most Hall of Famer players have short bursts of greatness and lots of OK, good, or pretty good seasons. Marino outside of 83-86 is nowhere near the same guy. 95+ rating to 83.6 rating Kelly outside of 90-91 is a complete joke that has no business in the HoF without buying a ticket. Years 1-4 - 82.4 rating 90-91 - 99.1 rating Years 7-11 - 80.3 raiting His playoffs consisted of 20 TDs and 28 picks so no, he did not lead teams to Super Bowls... he was carried. That he went in 1st ballot is an offense to every great player who has to wait to get in the Hall of Fame. Aikman's career was made in 92-95 in the playoffs Even Rodgers was defined by a 4 year period of excellence 112 rated QB from 2011-2014 98.4 before and 97.8 since That is still greatness throughout but no one would call him the GoaT based on anything but 2011-2014 Even a short career like Kurt Warner has this 1999-2001 - 103.4 rating (5 playoff wins and 2 Super Bowls) 2002-2007 - 84.3 rating (no playoffs) 2008-2009 - 95.2 rating (4 playoff wins and a Super Bowl) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 The 2005 GB team was ravaged by injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 40 minutes ago, SkippyX said: Its hard to be elite in the NFL. Most Hall of Famer players have short bursts of greatness and lots of OK, good, or pretty good seasons. Marino outside of 83-86 is nowhere near the same guy. 95+ rating to 83.6 rating Kelly outside of 90-91 is a complete joke that has no business in the HoF without buying a ticket. Years 1-4 - 82.4 rating 90-91 - 99.1 rating Years 7-11 - 80.3 raiting His playoffs consisted of 20 TDs and 28 picks so no, he did not lead teams to Super Bowls... he was carried. That he went in 1st ballot is an offense to every great player who has to wait to get in the Hall of Fame. Aikman's career was made in 92-95 in the playoffs Even Rodgers was defined by a 4 year period of excellence 112 rated QB from 2011-2014 98.4 before and 97.8 since That is still greatness throughout but no one would call him the GoaT based on anything but 2011-2014 Even a short career like Kurt Warner has this 1999-2001 - 103.4 rating (5 playoff wins and 2 Super Bowls) 2002-2007 - 84.3 rating (no playoffs) 2008-2009 - 95.2 rating (4 playoff wins and a Super Bowl) Elway from 88-92’ had very unimpressive numbers. Only one of his seasons he finished with more TD’s than INT’s and it was 15 TD/14 INT. But they had a lot of team success during that span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, DirtyDez said: Elway from 88-92’ had very unimpressive numbers. Only one of his seasons he finished with more TD’s than INT’s and it was 15 TD/14 INT. But they had a lot of team success during that span. Elway had a really weird career. He was never really a stats guy but he would lead those comebacks. The teams he took to the Super Bowl were not as good as the teams he faced. He deserved a ton of credit for leading teams there but he played really badly in those games. In the middle of his career they tried to eventually replace him with a couple of young QBs of the future. Through 10 years he had 158 TDs passing and 157 picks. 142 TDs and 69 picks the rest of the way The years he got with Shanahan where he had system / team / chemistry etc were very late in his career. Guys like Favre and Aikman got that much earlier in their career. Edited October 12, 2019 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Coaching. It’s almost always coaching. Was even gonna make a thread soon stating coaching is more important than players. Bellichick has always been more important than Brady. Payton has always been more important than Brees. Carroll has always been more important than Wilson. McCarthy reinvented Favre with his offensive system but he didn’t follow suit until the second year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 7 hours ago, BayRaider said: Coaching. It’s almost always coaching. Was even gonna make a thread soon stating coaching is more important than players. Bellichick has always been more important than Brady. Payton has always been more important than Brees. Carroll has always been more important than Wilson. McCarthy reinvented Favre with his offensive system but he didn’t follow suit until the second year. Belichick the head coach is 55-63 without Brady with 1 playoff win. He is 212-60 with Brady with 30 playoff wins. Belichick is the GoaT of coaches but he's nowhere near Brady. Throw in what he's done as DC or assistant head coach and he gets pretty close with those 8 titles and 12 Super Bowls. Brady might be the greatest person to ever play American sports. That's how good he is. Gretzky was absolutely amazing but his team won the cup 2 years after they traded him. (and he did not win in 11 years after the trade) I could be convinced that The Babe was better but you can have the debate. No one else is close. Carroll is 47-49 without Wilson with 2 playoff wins. He is 79-37-1 with Wilson with 8 playoff wins This is not even close. Wilson is an amazing player who makes bad offenses good. Payton is tied pretty closely to Brees but you can say that Brees is 37-37 without Payton. (SD and the suspension year of 2012) Payton is 3-1 without Brees in games that matter (not counting a couple week 17 games for 13 win teams but 3-3 if you count them for some reason) I still think its 52/48 Brees where its more like 60/40 Brady and 60/40 Wilson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, SkippyX said: Belichick the head coach is 55-63 without Brady with 1 playoff win. He is 212-60 with Brady with 30 playoff wins. Belichick is the GoaT of coaches but he's nowhere near Brady. Throw in what he's done as DC or assistant head coach and he gets pretty close with those 8 titles and 12 Super Bowls. Brady might be the greatest person to ever play American sports. That's how good he is. Gretzky was absolutely amazing but his team won the cup 2 years after they traded him. (and he did not win in 11 years after the trade) I could be convinced that The Babe was better but you can have the debate. No one else is close. Carroll is 47-49 without Wilson with 2 playoff wins. He is 79-37-1 with Wilson with 8 playoff wins This is not even close. Wilson is an amazing player who makes bad offenses good. Payton is tied pretty closely to Brees but you can say that Brees is 37-37 without Payton. (SD and the suspension year of 2012) Payton is 3-1 without Brees in games that matter (not counting a couple week 17 games for 13 win teams but 3-3 if you count them for some reason) I still think its 52/48 Brees where its more like 60/40 Brady and 60/40 Wilson. Yes, Belichick and Carroll will have fewer wins when you replace their elite, all time QBs with averages or scrubs. But discounting the Browns, Belichick has built some Patriots teams that have a good record without Brady. You won't have the dynasty without either Belichick or Brady. Wilson has also enjoyed several years of having the number 1 defense in the league, including the year he won his superbowl Payton has won games this year without elite offense in general, because he finally built a team with respectable defense and special teams, like most of Belichick and Carroll's teams. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: Yes, Belichick and Carroll will have fewer wins when you replace their elite, all time QBs with averages or scrubs. But discounting the Browns, Belichick has built some Patriots teams that have a good record without Brady. You won't have the dynasty without either Belichick or Brady. Wilson has also enjoyed several years of having the number 1 defense in the league, including the year he won his superbowl Payton has won games this year without elite offense in general, because he finally built a team with respectable defense and special teams, like most of Belichick and Carroll's teams. Yeah I’m not saying Brady, Brees, Wilson are products of coaching, just that coaching is more important. Without coaching there is zero chance a team succeeds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: Yeah I’m not saying Brady, Brees, Wilson are products of coaching, just that coaching is more important. Without coaching there is zero chance a team succeeds. This is something that I feel most fans don't even see anymore and I blame that stupid video game on it. Nowadays, everyone thinks anyone can be a GM or HC just as long as you have talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 What years was he at NYJ? I seem to remember one of those years being good? I know he started with a win down in MIA heaving up a prayer to Kerley which was caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: What years was he at NYJ? I seem to remember one of those years being good? I know he started with a win down in MIA heaving up a prayer to Kerley which was caught. He was terrible as a Jet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: He was terrible as a Jet. First half of season was probably better than you're remembering. He got an injury I think. Threw 6 TDs in one game, he put together a game winning drive IN FOXBORO....I think it wasn't that terrible, especially first 10 or so weeks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: He was terrible as a Jet. He was better than terrible, Jets were having a very good season (had the division lead) before Favre got hurt. Of course that coincided with Brady getting hurt, but even so Jets were OK. Edited October 13, 2019 by ChazStandard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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