Bold prediction: Jared Goff will be benched!

[VanS]

37 minutes ago, JonStark said:

When did anyone put them in the same tier as Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Deshaun Watson? 

Goff and Baker are good QB, but they are not on the level of the guys you mentioned yet. People just love talking in extremes. With a decent (or in Goff's case, anything above a bottom 5) OL, they would be fine. 

Many had Baker ahead of Deshaun going into the season.  With the most insane putting him up there with Patrick Mahomes.  And don't act like people weren't calling Jared Goff an MVP candidate last year during the Rams stellar run.

Maybe its because I was never sold on either Mayfield or Goff but there was insane hype surrounding both.  Now that they've been revealed to be frauds, everyone wants to act like they were never being discussed alongside the best players at their position.

I'm one of the few people that was saying last year that Goff and Mayfield were overrated.  Its easy to kick someone when they are down.  Its another to point out their flaws when they are riding high.

[JonStark]

3 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I mean there were Rams fans (not saying you specifically) in the past 12 months that were comparing Goff to a "young" Tom Brady, stated they would take him over Mahomes, and some appeared to be insulted that posters compared Goff to Eli Manning (Prime years obviously not current Eli). 

 

Maybe a look through this will refresh some memories of the pedestal some were placing Goff on:

 

Well that's exactly what I mean by people only speaking in extremes. I can see last year how people could make comparisons between Goff & Mcvay's relationship to that of Brady & Belicheck's, but why is there no middle ground between Pat Mahommes and Eli Manning (even in his prime). Goff is already much more accurate when he has protection than Eli was, so I could see being turned off by that comparison. You have to remember that thread was in the midst of a Rams Superbowl run.  

If people were under the impression he was on Mahommes level then sure, he was overrated, but he is still a top 12-15 QB in the league and is only 24. His struggles recently are directly related to playcalling & bottom 5 offensive line play. 

[VanS]

6 minutes ago, Elky said:

Brady's biggest struggles (2006, 2013, second half 2015) happened due to poor line play and/or crap weapons. Are we going to say Deshaun Watson is better than him?

I've always been on the side that Belichek is more significant to the Patriots dynasty than Brady.  Belichek won 11 games with Matt Cassell in 2008.   I'm sure he wouldn't mind having Deshaun Watson if you told him that would be his QB.

Many a QB would have succeeded in New England if you made them trade spots with Brady.

[SBLIII]

3 minutes ago, VanS said:

I've always been on the side that Belichek is more significant to the Patriots dynasty than Brady.  Belichek won 11 games with Matt Cassell in 2008.   I'm sure he wouldn't mind having Deshaun Watson if you told him that would be his QB.

Many a QB would have succeeded in New England if you made them trade spots with Brady.

That's why the success will continue as long as Belichick decides it will. Cannot wait who our next QB will but that's another topic.

[SWATcha]

4 hours ago, Gmen said:

Bigger disappointment : Baker Mayfield or Jared Goff? 

Going into the season you wouldn’t be surprised to see their name as potential MVP candidates. It’s amazing how quickly things change in this league. At least the Browns aren’t saddled with a $100 million contract with Baker. 

While I hold no love for either of those guys, their O-lines have been playing like trash and doing them no favors. Unless you're crazy mobile like Wilson, Mahomes, and Watson, poor O-line play almost always means tough sledding for the QB, but especially younger QBs. 

After watching both the last 2-3 weeks, I think poor play calling from Kitchens and McVay can also be tossed in there as well. 

I don't think either of these guys are going to ever reach Brady/Brees/Rogers status, but I think both have enough talent to have successful careers if given the proper variables. 

[Elky]

10 minutes ago, VanS said:

I've always been on the side that Belichek is more significant to the Patriots dynasty than Brady.  Belichek won 11 games with Matt Cassell in 2008.   I'm sure he wouldn't mind having Deshaun Watson if you told him that would be his QB.

Many a QB would have succeeded in New England if you made them trade spots with Brady.

People still use this crap argument? Matt Cassel failed to get us into the playoffs despite an easy schedule and inheriting a team that was a couple of plays away from going 19-0 and set the record for touchdown passes. Our offense was practically halved under him and some of the games we lost we would have won with Brady (Chargers, Steelers, Colts).

Would other quarterbacks succeed under us? Sure. But if Belichick would be chased out of town if he even thought of trading Brady for Watson.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Elky

[Gmen]

24 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I mean there were Rams fans (not saying you specifically) in the past 12 months that were comparing Goff to a "young" Tom Brady, stated they would take him over Mahomes, and some appeared to be insulted that posters compared Goff to Eli Manning (Prime years obviously not current Eli). 

 

Maybe a look through this will refresh some memories of the pedestal some were placing Goff on:

 

I think @jrry32 jinxed his boy. It’s been all downhill since he created that thread on November 20th. 

[JonStark]

1 minute ago, VanS said:

Many had Baker ahead of Deshaun going into the season.  With the most insane putting him up there with Patrick Mahomes.  And don't act like people weren't calling Jared Goff an MVP candidate last year during the Rams stellar run.

Maybe its because I was never sold on either Mayfield or Goff but there was insane hype surrounding both.  Now that they've been revealed to be frauds, everyone wants to act like they were never being discussed alongside the best players at their position.

I'm one of the few people that was saying last year that Goff and Mayfield were overrated.  Its easy to kick someone when they are down.  Its another to point out their flaws when they are riding high.

Goff was absolutely an MVP candidate last season, but that has nothing to do with his or the team's play this season. I'm fine with you saying he wasn't the favorite or shouldn't have won (which I'd agree with), but to say he shouldn't have been a candidate is just blind hate or ignorance. Take your pick.  

Again... extremes. Neither are frauds. You're being dramatic. At this stage in their young careers, both are good, capable QBs with protection. Could they progress into more? Absolutely. Could they regress? Absolutely, especially with the amount of hits they are taking. Those things mess with a QBs' head. 

Or you were just a hater last year trying to go against the grain and luckily for you, their teams didn't do what they needed to do to protect them in the offseason (this is mostly about the Rams because I know a lot less about the Browns). Goff looked great last year when we had a functional offensive line and I'm honestly not sure how anyone can disagree with that without intentionally trying to. 

[VanS]

3 minutes ago, Elky said:

People still use this crap argument? Matt Cassel failed to get us into the playoffs despite an easy schedule and inheriting a team that was a couple of plays away from going 19-0 and set the record for touchdown passes. Our offense was practically halved under him and some of the games we lost we would have won with Brady.

Would other quarterbacks succeed under us? Sure. But if Belichick would be chased out of town if he even thought of trading Brady for Watson.

Ok.  Now lets go to 2016 when Brady was suspended for the first 4 games and the Patriots went 3-1 with their two backup QBs. 

I'm not saying Brady is trash.  He's an excellent QB.  But he's not the GOAT.  Or really even close to it.  There are many QBs who are more talented who if put in his situation would also win 6 rings.   And you don't need to worry about Belichek trading Brady for Watson.  Even the Texans aren't dumb enough to do that trade right now.

Give Belichek Deshaun Watson and he could win another 6 super bowls if he wanted to keep coaching.

[Joe_is_the_best]

Next thread: "Bold prediction: Dak Prescott will be benched"

[sammymvpknight]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

Great QBs make up for deficiencies elsewhere on the roster.  Guys like Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Deshaun Watson have excelled despite having less than stellar offensive lines.

Maybe Goff and Mayfield are simply overrated and never were as good as most thought. 

Mayfield is only in his second year at QB. He's been disappointing, no question, considering how good he looks last season, but the OL has looked worse and the league has had a year to figure out his tendencies. It's about about moves and counter-moves...I'm definitely not going to lose hope with Mayfield. I'm not sure about Goff. He has also been blessed by his situation and this sudden regression with the loss of Gurley likely says something. But again, Goff is also a young QB...he can get it figured out.

[tyler735]

I've seen a lot of blame being placed on the OL, and playcalling for Goff's struggles, and I won't deny that it probably is playing a role in it to an extent. However Goff seems to be missing on throws even when he isn't being pressured, or the playcalling is putting his targets in positions to get open. Here's a quick breakdown from Brian Baldinger on a couple crucial throws from yesterday where Goff has nobody but himself to blame:

 

[JonStark]

8 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I've seen a lot of blame being placed on the OL, and playcalling for Goff's struggles, and I won't deny that it probably is playing a role in it to an extent. However Goff seems to be missing on throws even when he isn't being pressured, or the playcalling is putting his targets in positions to get open. Here's a quick breakdown from Brian Baldinger on a couple crucial throws from yesterday where Goff has nobody but himself to blame:

 

When you get used to getting hit on every play, your mental clock gets thrown off and you start feeling ghosts. He does need to get a little more mentally tough to avoid letting that phase him though. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by JonStark

[Elky]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

Ok.  Now lets go to 2016 when Brady was suspended for the first 4 games and the Patriots went 3-1 with their two backup QBs. 

I'm not saying Brady is trash.  He's an excellent QB.  But he's not the GOAT.  Or really even close to it.  There are many QBs who are more talented who if put in his situation would also win 6 rings.   And you don't need to worry about Belichek trading Brady for Watson.  Even the Texans aren't dumb enough to do that trade right now.

Give Belichek Deshaun Watson and he could win another 6 super bowls if he wanted to keep coaching.

Both Jimmy Garappolo and Jacoby Brissett have been doing very well for their respective teams. Even Cassel had some success in KC. We've done an excellent job at disaster control in case something happens to Brady. Investing in a quality backup QB is something not nearly enough teams do.

And Tom Brady is absolutely the GOAT. Practically all of his peers agree with that sentiment. Even Deshaun Watson probably thinks that. The guy nearly took Aaron Dobson and Kenbrell Thompkins to the Super Bowl. To say Watson would win 6 Super Bowls as our QB when he hasn't won a playoff game yet is a sign that you're delusional.

Then again you're the one who thinks Josh Dobbs is a starter in this league.

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Elky

[LeotheLion]

https://twitter.com/mattwaldman/status/1183751439199420419?s=21

This is as good of a breakdown for anyone that think Goff should actually be benched.