Draft Talk 2020

[sparky151]

7 hours ago, theJ said:

Neither of those guys would come to Cincinnati. Not in it's current state. 

Your choices are going to be second runs that had poor first runs, or first runs who aren't a leading candidate elsewhere. The big names don't want to ruin their reputation on a team that's currently in the midst of a 1 win season. Heck they couldn't attract a quality name candidate last year after they had 6 wins. 

I'm not a Taylor apologist. If I thought they could get a candidate with a great former resume, I'd agree with you. But I don't think they'll attract that guy. So I'm prepared to see if Taylor can figure it out. Just because the first year is a dumpster fire doesn't mean they all will be. 

This is probably what Cleveland was thinking after Hue's 1-15 season. He then took less than full advantage of his second chance by going 0-16. 

It would be a grievous mistake not to admit that Taylor is in over his head and the club should take advantage of the chance to hire someone with prior successful experience as a HC and not have to wait until after the Super Bowl to put a staff together. Taylor has shown no ability to recruit a good staff, develop players, or even call plays.

Certainly, Cincinnati won't be a first choice destination. Parcells isn't coming out of retirement. But there are 6-8 coaching changes a year. It's not like there aren't people available who wore out their welcome in one place but have taken advantage of their time off and who are much better qualified to be an NFL head coach than Zac Taylor.

[sparky151]

6 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Yeah, but he also won with a prime Aaron Rodgers. He won't have that here. What's so special about him, anyway? There's a reason he was let go. His offenses were as archaic as they come. 

Theoretically, that sounds great. But we need to consider a few things. Do we know if Brady even wants to coach at the NFL level, whether he wants to leave LSU (after one season), whether Zac is willing to give up his play calling duties (remaining as HC), whether the Cincinnati FO is ready to decommit to Taylor's offensive strategy, or whether Brady wants to up heave his family and move to Cincinnati? We have zero idea. We're just assuming all the team has to do is pick up the phone and offer him a job and everything will be hunky-dory.

The Bengals are in the midst of what is likely a 2 or 3 year plan. We are going to see Zac through for a couple seasons. We're not a franchise that is quick to uproot everything and try again after 1 season. And to be honest, I'm not a fan of that either. With that strategy there is no congruity. Starting fresh every year isn't easy. And I'm not saying we stick with Zac like Marvin, because obviously that was too far on the 'committed' spectrum. But I'd rather see another year of Zac before letting him go. He could very well not be the guy, but we can at least give him a shot for a few seasons before we send him out to pasture, especially considering the circumstances of the year.

 

McCarthy isn't special but he's available and has coached a team to the playoffs many times with a Super Bowl win on his resume. That dwarfs Taylor's credentials to be an NFL coach.

 

You misunderstand if you think Taylor would still be around if I were in charge. Changing coaches too frequently was a problem for the Browns. It's not something the Bengals have made a habit of. We won't find the right coach if we're stuck with Taylor. If he had the makings of a good NFL coach, this team would have won more games than last year with the same players, not a lot fewer. Of course Joe Brady wants to coach in the NFL. That's why he took the LSU job, to get out from under the shadow of Payton, who is the play caller for the Saints. 

[Beck Bristow]

2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Most of the early draft stuff i'm reading says there is Isaiah Simmons at LB (Probably top 10 pick) and then schlop after that.  Rd 3 or 4 is probably where we should target an athletic linebacker with coverage skills that is a little more under the radar

Dylan Moses from Alabama (out injured this year) and a kid from Oklahoma (Kenny something) are late first early second linebacker possibilities.  Potential for a lot of solid players to be there. Should get a solid one regardless of the position. 

[sparky151]

We could get Malik Harrison in the 3rd, maybe even the 4th round. He's pretty athletic. No thanks to Moses. Murray from OU is good.

 

But there is a pretty good group of FA LBs this year so we should shop there first. 

[INbengalfan]

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

This is probably what Cleveland was thinking after Hue's 1-15 season. He then took less than full advantage of his second chance by going 0-16. 

It would be a grievous mistake not to admit that Taylor is in over his head and the club should take advantage of the chance to hire someone with prior successful experience as a HC and not have to wait until after the Super Bowl to put a staff together. Taylor has shown no ability to recruit a good staff, develop players, or even call plays.

Certainly, Cincinnati won't be a first choice destination. Parcells isn't coming out of retirement. But there are 6-8 coaching changes a year. It's not like there aren't people available who wore out their welcome in one place but have taken advantage of their time off and who are much better qualified to be an NFL head coach than Zac Taylor.

Wholeheartedly disagree.  Too many impulsive reactions here.  Hall of Fame coaches have started this bad, but patience allowed them to develop.  Other coaches that started 1-15 (or 1-13) include Noll, Walsh and Jimmy Johnson.  Think their ownership regret giving them time to grow into the role?  Me either.  People are so quick to jump ship anymore.  It's ridiculous. 

 

Apart from that, this is a team that gave Marvin Lewis 16 years.  Unborn babies close to birth could drive before he actually left.  Let that sink in.  And then tell me you believe they will pull the plug this fast, regardless of you or others feel about it.

[INbengalfan]

1 hour ago, Beck Bristow said:

Dylan Moses from Alabama (out injured this year) and a kid from Oklahoma (Kenny something) are late first early second linebacker possibilities.  Potential for a lot of solid players to be there. Should get a solid one regardless of the position. 

Ken Murray

[INbengalfan]

14 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

We could get Malik Harrison in the 3rd, maybe even the 4th round. He's pretty athletic. No thanks to Moses. Murray from OU is good.

 

But there is a pretty good group of FA LBs this year so we should shop there first. 

Late first early second at this point.  Obviously a lot could change.

[SmittyBacall]

We won't really know how to project these guys until after the combine. Mack Wilson was a 2nd round pick before he tested.

[sparky151]

2 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

Wholeheartedly disagree.  Too many impulsive reactions here.  Hall of Fame coaches have started this bad, but patience allowed them to develop.  Other coaches that started 1-15 (or 1-13) include Noll, Walsh and Jimmy Johnson.  Think their ownership regret giving them time to grow into the role?  Me either.  People are so quick to jump ship anymore.  It's ridiculous. 

 

Apart from that, this is a team that gave Marvin Lewis 16 years.  Unborn babies close to birth could drive before he actually left.  Let that sink in.  And then tell me you believe they will pull the plug this fast, regardless of you or others feel about it.

Oh, I'd be surprised if the Bengals did the right thing and fired Taylor after 1 year. They'll seize any excuse or no excuse at all to not act. But firing a coach who goes from 7-9 to 1-15 isn't impulsive. It's how the league works, at least for normal teams which sometimes have success. Mike Brown would rather do things his way and forgo success but the rest of us shouldn't be accepting or forgiving of it. 

Your example coaches didn't inherit nearly .500 teams. The Steelers and 49ers won 2 games the year before Noll and Walsh took over. Landry's last Cowboys team won 3 games. So they didn't dramatically underachieve their predecessors. Jimmie Johnson had permission ahead of time to suck as part of the building process. Feel free to point out anything from the team before the season telling fans to expect a tough year. 

[INbengalfan]

55 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Oh, I'd be surprised if the Bengals did the right thing and fired Taylor after 1 year. They'll seize any excuse or no excuse at all to not act. But firing a coach who goes from 7-9 to 1-15 isn't impulsive. It's how the league works, at least for normal teams which sometimes have success. Mike Brown would rather do things his way and forgo success but the rest of us shouldn't be accepting or forgiving of it. 

Your example coaches didn't inherit nearly .500 teams. The Steelers and 49ers won 2 games the year before Noll and Walsh took over. Landry's last Cowboys team won 3 games. So they didn't dramatically underachieve their predecessors. Jimmie Johnson had permission ahead of time to suck as part of the building process. Feel free to point out anything from the team before the season telling fans to expect a tough year. 

1  Doubling down on Hart

2.  Doubling down on Preston Brown

3.  Not overhauling the front office or scouting staff

4.  Not engaging in free agency until late the second week.

5.  Not replacing Ross, who has been injured every season he played in.

6.  Not adequately addressing the LG spot, especially since they knew about Bolings clot issues late December 2018.

6.  Not having a backup plan at LT.  Because all Bengal fans know, key guys get hurt.

7.  Only drafting a fourth round QB to be the backup.  Not allowing meaningful competition for the spot.

8.  Choosing a coach whose present team at the time went to the Super Bowl, and didn't have the foresight to start hiring assistant coaches and coordinators ahead of time to make it look like they followed the rules.

9.  Losing Green in the first 10 minutes of camp, then failing to do anything to replace him, all the while stating he was out up to a month, then week to week, to never once setting foot on the field in a game..

10.  Ignoring the glaring holes at LB, again

 

That's ten.  Need more?  You'll have to wait if so cuz I'm on my way to see Star wars

[sparky151]

49 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

1  Doubling down on Hart

2.  Doubling down on Preston Brown

3.  Not overhauling the front office or scouting staff

4.  Not engaging in free agency until late the second week.

5.  Not replacing Ross, who has been injured every season he played in.

6.  Not adequately addressing the LG spot, especially since they knew about Bolings clot issues late December 2018.

6.  Not having a backup plan at LT.  Because all Bengal fans know, key guys get hurt.

7.  Only drafting a fourth round QB to be the backup.  Not allowing meaningful competition for the spot.

8.  Choosing a coach whose present team at the time went to the Super Bowl, and didn't have the foresight to start hiring assistant coaches and coordinators ahead of time to make it look like they followed the rules.

9.  Losing Green in the first 10 minutes of camp, then failing to do anything to replace him, all the while stating he was out up to a month, then week to week, to never once setting foot on the field in a game..

10.  Ignoring the glaring holes at LB, again

 

That's ten.  Need more?  You'll have to wait if so cuz I'm on my way to see Star wars

I don't disagree that all of those were issues. Do you consider them exculpatory somehow? Really, how hard is it to make sure the Welcome stadium surface is swept and free of gravel??

[SmittyBacall]

8 hours ago, sparky151 said:

I don't disagree that all of those were issues. Do you consider them exculpatory somehow? Really, how hard is it to make sure the Welcome stadium surface is swept and free of gravel??

You’re opinion on this season is way too shallow, and you keep avoiding pretty much all the context involved to make a reasonable assessment.

It’s basically:

7-9 Lewis > 1-13 Taylor = Coach Taylor Bad

[SmittyBacall]

10 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

a coach who goes from 7-9 to 1-15 isn't impulsive.

By the way, we're not 1-15. We're 1-13, and we have two very winnable games left on the schedule that I am scared shtless of.

[INbengalfan]

2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

You’re opinion on this season is way too shallow, and you keep avoiding pretty much all the context involved to make a reasonable assessment.

It’s basically:

7-9 Lewis > 1-13 Taylor = Coach Taylor Bad

And Lewis was only 6-10, but that's not really the point.  The team is rebuilding.  Steps back aren't fun., but sometimes very necessary for moving forward.  I know you are quoting Sparky, but put it here instead of quoting the long earlier post.

[theJ]

26 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

And Lewis was only 6-10, but that's not really the point.  The team is rebuilding.  Steps back aren't fun., but sometimes very necessary for moving forward.  I know you are quoting Sparky, but put it here instead of quoting the long earlier post.

With normal ball bounces and not starting Finley for 3 games, this team would be on track for 6 wins anyway.  The 2019 Bengals are the same as the 2018 Bengals.

They're exactly one AJ Green away from the same score differential as last year.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again - teams should win half of their close games (unless you're the Patriots).  The 2019 Bengals have won zero close games - that's bad "luck", and not something you can project into 2020.  Taylor has been no worse than ol' Marv, and he got 16 years.  Taylor should get at least two.