mtmmike Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 3and1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, New_Age_Dawgs said: How do you justify keeping Wilks? I understand they've worked together, but I don't see how Rivera would want to keep that around... Ultimately, Ron Rivera and Steve Wilks make beautiful defensive music together as their defensive collaborations and play-calling Carolina was a true force. They have great respect for each other and Rivera helps a great deal. In terms of Wilks alone on his own merit, what it comes down to for me is that I've seen Steve Wilks get players to play above their head and above their collective talent/ability and make the right calls to give us a winning chance more often then not and he's done so through wild personnel limitations. The injuries and personnel issues can't simply be glossed over as the Browns have experienced almost unprecedented personnel influx due to injury or other issues. The defense has struggled and been bad a lot this year, but more often then not the defense has kept up it's end of the bargain even through numerous major injuries or players being unavailable for other reasons (i.e., team suspensions or being cut). There are 11 starters on Defense. Of our 14 initial starters (nickel vs base adds 2 effective starters), 9/65% of them have been out for numerous games. That means 65% of our defense has been out. Of those players, 6 of them have been out at least 6 games including 2 pro-bowl caliber players; 3 different others have been out at least 4 games including 2 more pro-bowl/all-pro caliber players. We've also had 1 other pro-bowl caliber player out another game. They've been bad but injuries and other issues have decimated the defense all year. Wilks had a horrendous game against the 49ers and struggles in other games, but a lot of his play-calling has changed due to the personnel being influx and we've seen him adapt to 4-3 base verses nickel zone blitzing calls. In critical situations, the defense more often then not has come up with a big stop or big play to give the ball back to the offense to win us the game and/or score to make the game competitive. That has not always been the case but that's why I said more often then not. The defense is always constantly on the field because of our offensive struggles. The 9 out of 14 Initial Starters that have missed many games: Christian Kirksey - 12 games Eric Murray - 7 Games Olivier Vernon - 6 Games (I'm including the one he played a handful of snaps in and got injured in) Damarious Randall - 6 Games (injury and suspension) Jermaine Whitehead - 6 Games (injury and cut) Morgan Burnett - 6 Games Greedy Williams - 5 Games Denzel Ward - 4 Games Myles Garrett - 4 Games (Not counted or included b/c just 1 game) -- Larry Ogunjobi - 1 Game 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 If we retain Steve Wilks I'll probably break something. He's arguably worse than Freddie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaWg_LB. Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, mtmmike said: I am surprise that everybody wants to fire Freddy when he has a 500 record in are division. This is one thing I think has hurt Freddie in his first year......Unrealistic Expectations. IF anyone thought we were going to be 12-4 or 13-3 and win the division and go to the SB, after coming off a 7-8-1 record.......with all new coaches, a team depending on rookies and 2nd year guys (Soph Slump anyone) for leadership, and playing 5 playoff teams in our first 6 games (4 being on the road).....I was laughing at folks thinking 13-3 and SB win... At the start of the year, I had us going somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7 (possible wild card), I thought Pitts or Baltimore would win the Division and we would be 2nd in the Division. IF Kitchens wins out this year....we will finish the year 8-8 (4-2 in the division). Which is where i thought we would be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, MWil23 said: If we retain Steve Wilks I'll probably break something. He's arguably worse than Freddie. Wilks jas had some good games, where i dont think freddie has. Wilks has lost multiple starters and has a shell of his defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Wilks jas had some good games, where i dont think freddie has. Wilks has lost multiple starters and has a shell of his defense. Here's my issue with Wilks: He relies almost solely on getting to the QB with our front 4 while running soft zone concepts, when we have two of the best young man/press man CB on the outside and our front 4 without Myles is awful. He refuses to adapt and play to the strengths of his personnel. JMHO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, mtmmike said: I am surprise that everybody wants to fire Freddy when he has a 500 record in are division. He beat the Lamar Jackson Ravens, swept the legendary Andy Dalton Bengals, and beat the juggernaut Mason Rudolph Steelers so all the other issues the rest of the season are irrelevant. You've convinced me. If that's not a sign of why he gets us I don't know what is. Freddie Freddie! Say it with me Brown and Orange... Brown and Orange!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 34 minutes ago, mtmmike said: I am surprised that everybody wants to fire Freddy when he has a .500 record in are division. really? He's terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mind Character said: He beat the Lamar Jackson Ravens, swept the legendary Andy Dalton Bengals, and beat the juggernaut Mason Rudolph Steelers so all the other issues the rest of the season are irrelevant. You've convinced me. If that's not a sign of why he gets us I don't know what is. Freddie Freddie! Say it with me Brown and Orange... Brown and Orange!! Ok mind look into your crystal ball and predict what name brand coach you get that will accept Dorsey,Mayfield and Myles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said: IF Kitchens wins out this year....we will finish the year 8-8 (4-2 in the division). Which is where i thought we would be... If we went 8-8 with wins against the 49ers, Seahaws, Jets, Patriots, Titans, Bengals, Steelers, Ravens, it would surely be different then an 8-8 against the Jets, Broncos, Buffalo, Dolphins, Bengals, Bengals, Steelers, Ravens. I'm sure we could imagine those seasons feeling different. Much in that same manner, the context of play and how the team operates matters and can shape analysis and evaluation of competencies and incompetence throughout the course of the season. 2 Interceptions in the boxscore is not equivalent to 2 Interceptions in another box-score. 8-8 records are not the same as other 8-8 records. Context matters. A 8-8 team that battles and competes to the last minute in almost every game and raises it's focus and level of play against harder opponents... a team where the plans of attack and situational football management is handled efficiently and intelligently... is different then an 8-8 team who doesn't show up at all in multiple games, doesn't have plans of attack and situational football management that make sense, lacks competitive focus, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaWg_LB. Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 IF I was Freddie, I would Promote Modken Asst. HC/OC to call plays. Keep Stump Mitchell as the Run Game Coordinator, Add Passing game Coordinator to Adam Henry. And get Tyler Tettleton more involved (this is kid is going to be a coaching star I feel). On D I would fire Wilks and Holcomb, Promoting Joe Whitt as the new D-Coordinator, Dewayne Walker as the new DB's/Passing Game Coordinator. Then let him decide on the rest of the coaches on D....personally I'd like to the Ryan Twins brought in to Coach under him (Rex the Dline and Rob the Linebackers)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Here's my issue with Wilks: He relies almost solely on getting to the QB with our front 4 while running soft zone concepts, when we have two of the best young man/press man CB on the outside and our front 4 without Myles is awful. He refuses to adapt and play to the strengths of his personnel. JMHO That’s ok I will give Wilkes Shaquille Barrett and Jones then draft gladney dB tcu and play anybody’s head coach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaWg_LB. Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mind Character said: If we went 8-8 with wins against the 49ers, Seahaws, Jets, Patriots, Titans, Bengals, Steelers, Ravens, it would surely be different then an 8-8 against the Jets, Broncos, Buffalo, Dolphins, Bengals, Bengals, Steelers, Ravens. I'm sure we could imagine those seasons feeling different. Much in that same manner, the context of play and how the team operates matters and can shape analysis and evaluation of competencies and incompetence throughout the course of the season. 2 Interceptions in the boxscore is not equivalent to 2 Interceptions in another box-score. 8-8 records are not the same as other 8-8 records. Context matters. A 8-8 team that battles and competes to the last minute in almost every game and raises it's focus and level of play against harder opponents... a team where the plans of attack and situational football management is handled efficiently and intelligently... is different then an 8-8 team who doesn't show up at all in multiple games, doesn't have plans of attack and situational football management that make sense, lacks competitive focus, etc.. I agree with you on aspects of this......but then disagree on aspects especially with extrapolation.....if we went 8-8 and made the playoff's and went on a SB Run....I am SURE no ONE would care which 8 teams we beat to get in...... And I guess we do have different view points.....I look at Freddie as having improved in some aspects during the season, I saw a screen game get added, I saw Hunt incorporated successfully. I see less penalties now than in week 1. I have seen a coach deal with extreme injuries in his Secondary, Dline and Linebacking Corps (which were thin to begin with), I see a coach that is learning how to Coach on the job. I defend him because of statements like were made earlier, like everytime we loose its Freddie Fault, but when we win its "Chubb had a great game, or the D decided to show up today". He gets all the Blame and none of the credit. My thing is give him the Blame he deserves, but if he makes a good play call based on down and distance, and the RG decides not to block his man, and the ball gets picked and run back from a TD....that does NOT MAKE IT BAD PLAY CALL....it makes it S#!T% execution. When it comes to record.....I have a bottom line approach that is not as flexible and outlook and may be more antiquated. But: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, mtmmike said: Ok mind look into your crystal ball and predict what name brand coach you get that will accept Dorsey,Mayfield and Myles I'm seeing a word that describes color... Wait.. wait... there's something else... .. a message that says "he will rhymes with 2... .. who could it be? OMG... it's HUE... ----- No, but seriously... you have to remember the quality of jobs that typically come open. Most job positions are available because the team is bad. Which job is best and which is 2nd best??: Browns, Jaguars, Cowboys, Falcons, Panthers, Lions, Giants, Jets? I'd say ours and the Cowboys. Ours might be more coveted because of Jerry Jones or for other reasons. Accept Myles ??? LolLast year, Bruce Arians, Josh McDaniels, and Mike McCarthy all campaigned publicly and through agents in the media to get the Browns job. Beyond that though, do you have any idea how many coaches would sign up to coach Myles, Jarvis, Larry O, Chubb, Hunt, Sheldon, OBJ, Bitonio, Tretter, Ward, Greedy, Baker etc?? . There are going to be numerous good coaches looking to sign up to work with John Dorsey as they respect his scouting mind. Power dynamics get decided by ownership ultimately. The Browns job is still going to be the best non-Cowboys job on the market. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I think you said no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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