Week 10 GDT - Seattle Seahawks at San Francisco 49ers

[straighthate]

3 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

Patriots are ranked 14th in offensive DVOA. Far from horrid without Gronkowski. They won a Super Bowl without him one year too. Probably because other dudes did the basic job of catching a football. 

 

You and I are kind of arguing the same thing. Right after the game I posted my thoughts and every other line was the WRs lost us the game. I firmly believe if even half the drops were caught we win by two scores. That said, I’m just saying Kittle absolutely changes our offense and without him we cannot overcome some of the things that lost us the game. 
 

As for the Pats, I think everyone in football agrees that the offense is not the same this year. And when they won the Super Bowl without Gronk, they had plenty of other weapons AND the second greatest QB in the history of the game (I would argue he’s lost a step and is not playing at that same level today).  We don’t have that same luxury. Kittle is without a doubt our biggest weapon and is vital for the run, pass, and his leadership. The last one is just my guess, but I think he calms down the team in big moments and fires them up when they need it. Just my thoughts from observing how they react to him. 
 

So, that’s why before the game I said Kittle needs to go if he can. And I believe most fans underestimated his value to this team. I think last night proved that, at least to me.  My sincere hope is we don’t get a bigger sample size to see if I’m right or not. That game was enough for me, and hopefully he only needs one week to get healthy. 

[John232]

6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

No, what I responded was you saying everything has to be perfect for him to succeed. That's where I disagreed. Not once did I say he didn't have a bad game or his turnovers weren't brutal. I even mentioned his flaws are that he takes too many risks and at times predetermines his passes. But he's far from had a perfect situation since he's been in SF. Obviously this year the run game has been really good in some games and our defense has been great, but for majority of his tenure here he's had to deal with not so great tackle play. And when he has taken hits in games, he's still delivered. Yesterday he was definitely hesitant and unsure of himself, no doubting that. The Seahawks took away his money throws and he didn't come through. This passing offense is definitely going to have to start attacking the perimeter more and Jimmy will have to be more accurate with his passes. 

And I never really said he needs to have it perfect. Other people are insinuating that it has to be. That's what I'm attacking. The premise that A) Jimmy G has been great when other people have been great (false) and B)  immy G wasn't (as) culpable as other units for this loss. He objectively played like dog ****, especially (and surprisingly) in the clutch. That's what I'm taking issue with. I don't expect a QB to be perfect, and honestly, since the Tampa game, I haven't been on his case really. But this week was just horrible.

Jimmy has had his first great game last week and his first awful game this week. Most of his season has been in the middle between that. That's fine for now, but it won't be fine when we start playing teams like the Packers, Vikings and Saints. This is why I'm worried. 

 

but again, Jimmy has shown he's tough as nails, rebounds very well and even when he's "hesitant" he'll still try to make the big throw. If we're picking flaws, I rather have someone over aggressive than someone whose softer than puppy ****.

[49ersfan]

6 minutes ago, Ftn49 said:

I think two major things happened last night.

1) Clowney had maybe the best game of his career, certainly the best professional game that I have watched him in. Seattles gameplan doesn't succeed without him but he is on their team so props to them. 

2) a combination of the havoc that Clowney was reaping and the injuries to our best offensive weapons made Jimmy hesitant to start with which only grew when his receivers didn't help him out at all outside of Deebo who had a couple of issues himself. 

All in all, it sucks we lost, move onto the next game. I think even with the loss we've proved we are one of the best teams in the league this year.

Hope we can move on smoothly to Arizona. 2 things worry me. 1, the injuries. 2, the short week + we played a full extra quarter of football 

Hope Staley/McGlinchey were just knocking the rust off, because they've got a tough test with Suggs/Jones. At least we're at home

[oldman9er]

4 minutes ago, John232 said:

And I never really said he needs to have it perfect. Other people are insinuating that it has to be. That's what I'm attacking.

wut???

you just posted this a few pages ago. 

pg 81 at the bottom  ----- https://forums.footballsfuture.com/topic/22823-week-10-gdt-seattle-seahawks-at-san-francisco-49ers/?page=81

 

Quote

I’ll go through and reply later. But jimmy has talent, I’ve never denied that. The issue is needing things to be perfect for it to “work”. Regardless or drops and oline play, he was throwing into Seattle defenders all night. He’s getting paid a lot to do that. 

Are you now saying the issue is that the bold is what others think? cuz if so, remarkably poor job of context.  

 

ffs, this is what is somehow worse than the 49ers getting an L... and to Seattle. It's the overreactions and leaning back to desired preconceptions and agenda. ( not necessarily u john, i don't even remember for sure where u are there )

 

[Forge]

Bottom line to me: 

Jimmy G played a bad game that was made to look even worse by incompetence around him (IE, he made mistakes that were completely unaffiliated with the bad play around him in addition to getting hosed by the incompetence around him). 

The wide receivers played arguably one of the worst games I can remember a group of receivers playing. 

The offensive line was bad. 

Joe Staley was the worst. 

 

[oldman9er]

at least we got this going for us... 

 

[John232]

11 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

wut???

you just posted this a few pages ago. 

pg 81 at the bottom  ----- https://forums.footballsfuture.com/topic/22823-week-10-gdt-seattle-seahawks-at-san-francisco-49ers/?page=81

 

Are you now saying the issue is that the bold is what others think? cuz if so, remarkably poor job of context.  

 

ffs, this is what is somehow worse than the 49ers getting an L... and to Seattle. It's the overreactions and leaning back to desired preconceptions and agenda. ( not necessarily u john, i don't even remember for sure where u are there )

 

It was poorly phrased then. I really didn't mean to say that *I* think he needs things to be perfect. But when I say people list of paragraphs and paragraphs as to why it's not jimmy's fault, then it sounds like people are saying that his situation to need to be cookie cutter clean for before we can hold him accountable. Thus, things being "perfect" for him to be competent. My overall arching point is that it's never ever going to be perfect, we're going to see many more dropped balls and much more bad offensive line play. Jimmy G has to be able to consistently rise above that. So far this season, he's done just enough to consistently do that. But last night, that wasn't enough; he has consistently made one or two really, REALLY bad plays a game this year, not just missing open receivers (that's common, even with the greats, at least once a game), but fumbling the ball, launching a ball into a defenders hands every game..that's bad. I don't know how it can be argued otherwise. And last night, he did this like 4 or 5 times. Honestly, I don't think this game should have been close. OUr defense is god tier and kept is in a game we had no business being in.  This is incredibly frustrating when he also has some wizard throw or escape for a huge play every game. It's incredibly feast or famine with him and it drives me crazy. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by John232

[John232]

7 minutes ago, Forge said:

Bottom line to me: 

Jimmy G played a bad game that was made to look even worse by incompetence around him (IE, he made mistakes that were completely unaffiliated with the bad play around him in addition to getting hosed by the incompetence around him). 

The wide receivers played arguably one of the worst games I can remember a group of receivers playing. 

The offensive line was bad. 

Joe Staley was the worst. 

 

Pretty much this.

The Tackle play and TE play was incomprehensibly bad. Like..I know there's rust, but jesus christ, they couldn't even get hands on him. Dwelley is also just horrific as a blocker. 

[oldman9er]

reiteration:

 

In no world, will the combo of THAT staley, mcG, bourne-dwelley-pettis-deebow group beat that Seahawk defense with ANY quarterback that night. 

A near INT is equal to a near fumble.. which is = to a whole lot of jack crap nothing. We can sit and add up every QB's "almost INTs" and have a good laugh. 

[Forge]

Really unfortunate for them if that is the case. That game was a bloodbath last night. 

[Forge]

Pretty much in lock step, Ted. 

[John232]

2 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

reiteration:

 

In no world, will the combo of THAT staley, mcG, bourne-dwelley-pettis-deebow group beat that Seahawk defense with ANY quarterback that night. 

A near INT is equal to a near fumble.. which is = to a whole lot of jack crap nothing. We can sit and add up every QB's "almost INTs" and have a good laugh. 

I mean sure, it may mean nothing. But teams are going to try and replicate those opportunities for "near interceptions" and the next team might make those "near" interceptions actual interceptions. It's a trend with Jimmy and one that needs to be broken. 

But I agree with the overall reiteration by both Lombardi and @Forge..JImmy G was bad..and it was made SO much worse by everyone else. The O-line play was horrendous, the receiver play was probably the worst i've seen since Chip Kelly era and the run game wasn't able to really break anything big, aside from one Coleman run.

 

 

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

23 minutes ago, John232 said:

And I never really said he needs to have it perfect. Other people are insinuating that it has to be. That's what I'm attacking. The premise that A) Jimmy G has been great when other people have been great (false) and B)  immy G wasn't (as) culpable as other units for this loss. He objectively played like dog ****, especially (and surprisingly) in the clutch. That's what I'm taking issue with. I don't expect a QB to be perfect, and honestly, since the Tampa game, I haven't been on his case really. But this week was just horrible.

Jimmy has had his first great game last week and his first awful game this week. Most of his season has been in the middle between that. That's fine for now, but it won't be fine when we start playing teams like the Packers, Vikings and Saints. This is why I'm worried. 

 

but again, Jimmy has shown he's tough as nails, rebounds very well and even when he's "hesitant" he'll still try to make the big throw. If we're picking flaws, I rather have someone over aggressive than someone whose softer than puppy ****.

I mean you will have games like we had last night where the OL isn't good and the receivers are dropping a bunch of passes. Jimmy still shouldn't have had three turnovers. That's why I can't excuse his performance. Three other near INTs and those two fumbles were killers. Just can't happen. Has to play more decisive and in more control. 

Even when things aren't going well, he usually still has his confidence and is able to bounce back. Yesterday though he just couldn't shake loose and never was comfortable back there. 

[49ersfan]

Taking a sober next day look, i will say i take solace in the fact that we were misfiring on so many cylinders, banged up/rusty as all hell, and facing a MVP candidate. Despite all that, against a good Seahawks team, we made them take all 70 minutes to win (the most you can possibly play in a regular season game), and still lost by a game-winning FG...that too after missing our own potential game-winning FG. 

Onto Arizona. Lets win that and keep it rolling.

[John232]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

I mean you will have games like we had last night where the OL isn't good and the receivers are dropping a bunch of passes. Jimmy still shouldn't have had three turnovers. That's why I can't excuse his performance. Three other near INTs and those two fumbles were killers. Just can't happen. Has to play more decisive and in more control. 

Even when things aren't going well, he usually still has his confidence and is able to bounce back. Yesterday though he just couldn't shake loose and never was comfortable back there. 

He was never comfortable, but this is also why i think Jimmy G has a really high ceiling. Because despite that, he was still trying to sling the ball to guys in OT. It was awful yesterday, but I appreciated his intent. (if that makes sense). Jimmy G doesn't play like a ***** and that's huge for me. If we got into OT and we had some check down artist, we would've just straight up loss. Jimmy G always tries to push it, he just has to be smarter about it and he just has to be more accurate. He made some awful throws in OT, then made the right plays to get us into field goal range. He did what he could despite the **** show, that's never been lost on me.