Kepler Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: mages depicting bondage D&D porn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 56 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I doubt I'll watch it. Maybe at some point but way too busy now. Regardless, I don't need to. Any worthwhile facts mentioned on the show can be found in their primary form for review (like the motions mentioned so far). I'll happily review those documents outside of the slant the show would otherwise put on them. You also seem to be confusing facts with interpretation. All the data was available for review by both sides. "The data" being the contents of the Barb Janda computer. If there is new relevant data gathered I am sure it was included in the motions presented by Avery and his now Hollywood team for the courts to rule on. Let's examine those documents directly. Fair enough. And you are also correct that Fassbender's report about what was on Barb's computer was available for review by both sides - I established this after realizing I was confusing the issue. What I'd like to dig into more, is what exactly was provided to everyone regarding the contents (data) found on Barb's computer? Was it just Fassbender's abridged version of Velie's affidavit (that I cut and pasted into my previous post), or was the DA and the defense both given full access to the drives and its content? In Season 2 of the show, Avery's Hollywood team, lead by Kathleen Zellner, was aghast at the fact that there was not more attention paid to these contents, and especially that they were mislabeled as "Contents of Brendan Dassey's Computer", when in reality they should have been labeled "Janda Home Computer". This discussion is prompting me to do much more research. Since you're not going to watch the show, here's the link to the documents you might be interested in researching yourself about the appeals Zellner has filed on Avery's behalf: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/appealsdocuments/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sasquatch said: Fair enough. And you are also correct that Fassbender's report about what was on Barb's computer was available for review by both sides - I established this after realizing I was confusing the issue. What I'd like to dig into more, is what exactly was provided to everyone regarding the contents (data) found on Barb's computer? Was it just Fassbender's abridged version of Velie's affidavit (that I cut and pasted into my previous post), or was the DA and the defense both given full access to the drives and its content? In Season 2 of the show, Avery's Hollywood team, lead by Kathleen Zellner, was aghast at the fact that there was not more attention paid to these contents, and especially that they were mislabeled as "Contents of Brendan Dassey's Computer", when in reality they should have been labeled "Janda Home Computer". This discussion is prompting me to do much more research. Since you're not going to watch the show, here's the link to the documents you might be interested in researching yourself about the appeals Zellner has filed on Avery's behalf: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/appealsdocuments/ The State's reply to the defense's claim about the Velie disc is available on line. The defense had the forensic image of the Janda home computer on 7 CD's, as demonstrated in multiple letters written by the defense, even including one from Strang's PA to the other defense attorney. There were multiple interactions between Kratz and Strang regarding stipulations about the data on the various computers involved. The state argues that the defense simply went with a different strategy. It strikes me that they didn't analyze the times of the downloads and draw the same conclusion as Zellner. I suspect that the risk is that because it is a computer available to multiple people and guests,, the jury might view the downloads as being related to Brendon Dassey and Avery and not view it as a sign that one of the other individuals was involved. It seems that it would be hard to present the download times as evidence that Bobby Dassey downloaded them and not someone else like Steven who lived across the street and was available during the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: The State's reply to the defense's claim about the Velie disc is available on line. The defense had the forensic image of the Janda home computer on 7 CD's, as demonstrated in multiple letters written by the defense, even including one from Strang's PA to the other defense attorney. There were multiple interactions between Kratz and Strang regarding stipulations about the data on the various computers involved. The state argues that the defense simply went with a different strategy. It strikes me that they didn't analyze the times of the downloads and draw the same conclusion as Zellner. I suspect that the risk is that because it is a computer available to multiple people and guests,, the jury might view the downloads as being related to Brendon Dassey and Avery and not view it as a sign that one of the other individuals was involved. It seems that it would be hard to present the download times as evidence that Bobby Dassey downloaded them and not someone else like Steven who lived across the street and was available during the day. I believe this was the source of Zellner's heartburn also. She was critical of Strang and the defense, but she was also concerned that the defense - though technically given 7 weeks - was only really given something like 20 days to review the contents (thanks to Kratz), and even then there some additional issues for Stang not being able to aquire computer experts to examine the drives in the short window of opportunity they were given. As I mentioned, I'd like to know what was "actually" on the 7 CD's? Was it the full compliment of photos and websites that Dassey was viewing? If so, why didn't the defense - even in an abbreviated discovery period - spend more time creating an argument for investigating Bobby Dassey as a possible suspect? To your point about not knowing who in the Janda household was actually downloading and viewing this content, I believe there was some evidence presented in one of the later episodes that corroborates Bobby as the culprit, but I'll need to go back through that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaRisMa Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Avery kidnapped her. Avery raped her. Dassey then raped her. Avery killed her. Dassey helped burn the body. I don’t think Dassey is mentally there enough for him to continue to be in jail. Should be a felon on the sexual predator list, with continual supervision from a properly funded department. Avery should be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinneasGage Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Y'all talking bout GoT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Sasquatch said: I believe this was the source of Zellner's heartburn also. She was critical of Strang and the defense, but she was also concerned that the defense - though technically given 7 weeks - was only really given something like 20 days to review the contents (thanks to Kratz), and even then there some additional issues for Stang not being able to aquire computer experts to examine the drives in the short window of opportunity they were given. As I mentioned, I'd like to know what was "actually" on the 7 CD's? Was it the full compliment of photos and websites that Dassey was viewing? If so, why didn't the defense - even in an abbreviated discovery period - spend more time creating an argument for investigating Bobby Dassey as a possible suspect? To your point about not knowing who in the Janda household was actually downloading and viewing this content, I believe there was some evidence presented in one of the later episodes that corroborates Bobby as the culprit, but I'll need to go back through that. But I think Zellner oversimplifies that argument pointing at Bobby Dassey. I think the argument against Bobby Dassey is dependent on showing he was the only one that had access to the computer at that time, and I believe that is harder than the show makes it sound. She does a good job of making the case on the show, but I believe the rules of evidence make it much harder to make that case in court, especially when subject to cross examination. I believe she is pursuing a two pronged strategy- one is to pursue the legal routes towards a new trial. The other is to use the documentary to develop public pressure on the governor or the system in general to intervene. The pardon process in Wisconsin is currently suspended indefinitely, so I don't know how effective that will be, but if a new governor is elected that may change. Seems to me that ineffective council is the strongest argument in this case, especially for the confession issue with Brendon Dassey. That confession appeared to me to be an abomination, and how a court would let something like that go on with an adolescent with lower intellectual function amazes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, FinneasGage said: Y'all talking bout GoT? What is GoT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinneasGage Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Ragnar Danneskjold said: What is GoT? Gallon of Talons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, Sasquatch said: I believe this was the source of Zellner's heartburn also. She was critical of Strang and the defense, but she was also concerned that the defense - though technically given 7 weeks - was only really given something like 20 days to review the contents (thanks to Kratz), and even then there some additional issues for Stang not being able to aquire computer experts to examine the drives in the short window of opportunity they were given. As I mentioned, I'd like to know what was "actually" on the 7 CD's? Was it the full compliment of photos and websites that Dassey was viewing? If so, why didn't the defense - even in an abbreviated discovery period - spend more time creating an argument for investigating Bobby Dassey as a possible suspect? To your point about not knowing who in the Janda household was actually downloading and viewing this content, I believe there was some evidence presented in one of the later episodes that corroborates Bobby as the culprit, but I'll need to go back through that. They had 7 weeks before the trial to review the CDs which contained all the relevant details from the home computer. The 20 days you are referring to is relevant for Denny purposes (my assumption here is that 3rd party liabilityust be brought forward x days before the trial, here 7 weeks minus 20 days). There is supposedly an affadivit from a computer forensic 'expert' hired by the defense, but I haven't located the actual affadavit yet. Once found, one must also realize this is strictly a one-sided account (slanted) account of the data. It needs to then be weighed against the state's interpretation of the data (which is obviously not offered in the docu-drama). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: But I think Zellner oversimplifies that argument pointing at Bobby Dassey. I think the argument against Bobby Dassey is dependent on showing he was the only one that had access to the computer at that time, and I believe that is harder than the show makes it sound. She does a good job of making the case on the show, but I believe the rules of evidence make it much harder to make that case in court, especially when subject to cross examination. I believe she is pursuing a two pronged strategy- one is to pursue the legal routes towards a new trial. The other is to use the documentary to develop public pressure on the governor or the system in general to intervene. The pardon process in Wisconsin is currently suspended indefinitely, so I don't know how effective that will be, but if a new governor is elected that may change. Seems to me that ineffective council is the strongest argument in this case, especially for the confession issue with Brendon Dassey. That confession appeared to me to be an abomination, and how a court would let something like that go on with an adolescent with lower intellectual function amazes me. It was cringe-worthy for sure, as were the actions of several officers, detectives and the DA throughout the case, quite frankly. As I said at the top of this discussion - everything about this show and this case triggers me, but I appreciate talking it through with someone else who watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 33 minutes ago, Sasquatch said: It was cringe-worthy for sure, as were the actions of several officers, detectives and the DA throughout the case, quite frankly. As I said at the top of this discussion - everything about this show and this case triggers me, but I appreciate talking it through with someone else who watched. They unfortunately completely screwed up that interrogation. Should have been smarter. Brendan was obviously involved in the rape and murder so it's unfortunate the state didn't get a clean conviction. It's also a shame the docu-drama is so one-sided and worse, so dishonest. One need only have watched the first season to understand nothing can be taken seriously that comes from that show. It's useful only for perhaps pointing to actually useful documents. Like an badly opinionated Wikipedia page with some useful links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Nashville is the greatest city in the world. And no state income tax. If you can pick where to be, I don't know why more people don't pick Nashville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Guess I am going to have to watch Making a Murderer now... Can't be as biased as any of the West Memphis Three stories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Guess I am going to have to watch Making a Murderer now... Can't be as biased as any of the West Memphis Three stories. Maybe Avery needs Vedder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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