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New England Patriots Spygate 2.0?

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7 minutes ago, DirtyDez said:

Forgive my ignorance but what was illegal about this?  

Not allowed to record sidelines from the press box. The Pats organization hired these guys to record for a documentary that’s been airing in the offseason. Notified and got permission from the Browns, whose stadium they’re in, but declined to notify the Bengals or the league. 

I don’t know why the video itself is some sort of nail in the coffin when it’s pretty much exactly what was reported. It’s not like Ray Rice where it was a big exposure, but I guess you could reference the long list of examples where video = swift punishment. 

They’ll get fined and docked picks, I bet, because they broke the letter of the rule and admitted to doing so. Not really convinced that video is a competitive example from briefly looking at it. 

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3 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

Maybe, but even their front office called him that

Did they? I don’t remember seeing that. They said their video crew, which consisted of independent contracted videographers that lacked knowledge of NFL filming regulations. That’s not an excusal, but I think it’s a believable explanation. 

Again, I wouldn’t call my roofers my employees. If they broke any roofing regulations, I’d be pretty angry with them and yes I’d be responsible, but I’d feel like it’s their fault. 

Wishful thinking of a Pats fan, perhaps. I’m not denying involvement or punishment. Just sort of see how this is more of an oversight type thing than a malicious thing. People really think Bill is the head honcho of offseason documentaries?

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18 minutes ago, DirtyDez said:

Forgive my ignorance but what was illegal about this?  

Can't video tape the opposing sideline. There's also a long list of places where anyone associated with the team can't have recording devices at all. You can steal signals by watching them but not by filming them. Can hire 15 people to stare at the opposing coaching staff, but you can't record any of it.

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3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Did they? I don’t remember seeing that. They said their video crew, which consisted of independent contracted videographers that lacked knowledge of NFL filming regulations. That’s not an excusal, but I think it’s a believable explanation. 

Again, I wouldn’t call my roofers my employees. If they broke any roofing regulations, I’d be pretty angry with them and yes I’d be responsible, but I’d feel like it’s their fault. 

Wishful thinking of a Pats fan, perhaps. I’m not denying involvement or punishment. Just sort of see how this is more of an oversight type thing than a malicious thing. People really think Bill is the head honcho of offseason documentaries?

Who New England feels is at fault is immaterial. I also think there's a slight difference between an individual hiring a contractor who breaks the law, and a franchise hiring a contractor that breaks the rules of the overarching association. It's up to the teams to make sure everyone under their umbrella follows the league's rules. It's up to all individuals to not break the law. Like, if I want to use my cell phone, buy a Chiefs ticket, and film the Broncos sideline, I can do that. If I decided to work on my own roof, I'd still have to follow regulations. Bit of a difference between individuals and universal laws/regulations, and a business following their larger association's rules.

You also open a stupidly crazy loophole if an NFL team can hire contractors and have them break NFL rules. 

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33 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I mean, not really. It's not like I have any faith in the Pats as truthful or honest or something. Just trying to assess logically for myself. Benefit of the doubt would be assuming innocence. This is more of a personal judgment thing.

And again, in my book it makes no difference for the penalty. They did it regardless of how much they benefited or what they intended to do.

You are literally assuming innocence by creating a reasoning as to why they wouldn’t cheat, thereby giving them the benefit of the doubt.

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Just now, mistakey said:

You are literally assuming innocence by creating a reasoning as to why they wouldn’t cheat, thereby giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Assuming innocence would be innocence without a reason. By having a reason for my opinion on what they were doing, I'm not assuming. I also don't think they're innocent. So, not assuming, and not innocence. So...yeah.

This is also just a really weird fight for you to pick. I'm not on the Pats side here, as is very clear from all of my posts in this thread.

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15 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

Who New England feels is at fault is immaterial. I also think there's a slight difference between an individual hiring a contractor who breaks the law, and a franchise hiring a contractor that breaks the rules of the overarching association. It's up to the teams to make sure everyone under their umbrella follows the league's rules. It's up to all individuals to not break the law. Like, if I want to use my cell phone, buy a Chiefs ticket, and film the Broncos sideline, I can do that. If I decided to work on my own roof, I'd still have to follow regulations. Bit of a difference between individuals and universal laws/regulations, and a business following their larger association's rules.

You also open a stupidly crazy loophole if an NFL team can hire contractors and have them break NFL rules. 

It’d be opening a loophole if I were saying that it absolves NE of blame, sure. You may be saying and thinking that the intent is irrelevant, but that’s exactly what I’m discussing. There’s blame and punishment to be had either way, I just think it falls in line with what one might consider reasonable. 

Lots of side eye is being cast on the responses from the team and Bill, which is fair given the history, but IMO it makes reasonable sense.

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1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Cheaters cheat. End of story.

Once a cheater, always a cheater. 

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1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

FOX got it from a security guard, wasn’t released by the NFL.

is FOX going to get blackballed suspended but the nfl commish now?

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8 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

is FOX going to get blackballed suspended but the nfl commish now?

Breaking news: an anonymous tip was forwarded, states FOX has been [insert politically incorrect action here], under investigation. NFL breaks all ties with FOX.

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2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

FOX got it from a security guard, wasn’t released by the NFL.

Sure. That’s exactly what happened. It’s not like the NFL would want the tape out, but wouldn’t want to officially release it.

 

Also...the video is from BEHIND the sideline? Seriously? So the Pats were “stealing signals” being done facing away from the camera?

Edited by ChazStandard

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2 minutes ago, ChazStandard said:

Sure. That’s exactly what happened. It’s not like the NFL would want the tape out, but wouldn’t want to officially release it.
 

Video leaks aren’t really uncommon, especially since this isn’t the official tape itself, it looks like it’s off of some bystanders phone. 

2 minutes ago, ChazStandard said:

Also...the video is from BEHIND the sideline? Seriously? So the Pats were “stealing signals” being done facing away from the camera?

Stupid, yes. Against the rules, still yes. There will be a penalty coming down, video or no video.

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1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

People really think Bill is the head honcho of offseason documentaries?

I don't think Bill was head honcho over "Kraft Productions" back in the day, either. Skepticism comes from the history of the Pats cheating. The same excuse was used by Pats employees caught filming in the past.

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1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Breaking news: an anonymous tip was forwarded, states FOX has been [insert politically incorrect action here], under investigation. NFL breaks all ties with FOX.

who broadcasts the SB then xD

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10 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

We had the most I don't think Bill was head honcho over "Kraft Productions" back in the day, either. Skepticism comes from the history of the Pats cheating. The same excuse was used by Pats employees caught filming in the past.

That’s fair skepticism, surely. Although I’d add the caveat that that’s coming from unnamed sources and were unconfirmed, but still understandable skepticism. I’m not poo-pooing that. I’m just highlighting that I don’t think a HC/GM, even one as evil geniusy as Bill, has their hands in everything. Like there’s probably a department for media, charities, and other stuff that isn’t directly football related. 

EDIT: My point is really this: take the name out of it for a second, doesn’t that explanation make sense? And I’m not saying that there’s a bias or something, given the history and reputation you have to have side eye and be skeptical here. But if that could be an explanation for any other team, then what else could the Pats say if this was in fact an oversight? 

Side note: Has there ever been anything to come out of Kraft Productions? Like docuseries, works, etc? Honest question, because I don’t know. I’ve watched all the “Do Your Job” segments, at least that’s a legit thing. 

8 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

who broadcasts the SB then xD

Bidding war!

Edited by Yin-Yang

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