Star Wars Universe Thread

[Acgott]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

Nice, so the final 4 episodes of Clone Wars occur at the same exact time as Revenge of the Sith? 

Yes, this isn’t a spoiler, as this has been confirmed, but just to be safe. The spoiler is only specifying the timing.
 

In the first episode of this arc, Ahsoka travels to Mandalore to fight Maul. Obi wan and Anakin can’t help as they need to rescue Palpatine. 

[Calvert28]

I'm sure some on here will believe this is amazing writing despite it being so contradicting.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/04/06/star-wars-introduces-jedi-knight-avar-kriss-as-brightest-most-noble-example-of-jedi-hood-forgets-about-yoda/

[THE DUKE]

Why do so many writers think the only way to prop up new characters is to **** on existing beloved characters?

[MacReady]

6 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

I'm sure some on here will believe this is amazing writing despite it being so contradicting.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/04/06/star-wars-introduces-jedi-knight-avar-kriss-as-brightest-most-noble-example-of-jedi-hood-forgets-about-yoda/

You're really gonna love this:

https://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/1132386-star-wars-series-from-leslye-headland-in-development-at-disney

[Deadpulse]

2 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

You're really gonna love this:

https://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/1132386-star-wars-series-from-leslye-headland-in-development-at-disney

What is wrong with that? Russian Dolls was a great show and she worked on one of the most under-rated TV properties of all time in Terriers. 

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Why do so many writers think the only way to prop up new characters is to **** on existing beloved characters?

I really don't understand how they didn't dive into more of he canon expanded universe stuff.  1. They know it's popular with fans.  2. As canon material, they probably have an ownership stake in it already, meaning it should be cheaper than original material, and 3. They're still free to mess with it to the degree that they want.  I really just don't understand why they didn't go that way, especially since the one decent movie in the sequel trilogy was just good because of the fanservice.

[MacReady]

Just now, Deadpulse said:

What is wrong with that? Russian Dolls was a great show and she worked on one of the most under-rated TV properties of all time in Terriers. 

Nothing is wrong with a female lead.  What's wrong is female-centric from the outset. 

What would happen if you had a male-centric film?  I'm not asking that in a butthurt outcry "that's not fair!" type way, I'm asking it in what would happen to that character if you went into a series with the sole purpose of it being male-centric?

What would happen is you would get an amalgamation of Predator characters.  Testosterone, tough, tobacco chewing and ticked off grunts.

Inclusion and diversity for the sake of inclusion and diversity is tokenism.  Prove me wrong. 

It leads to crap characters.  Absolutely horrendous characters. 

Rey, Finn, Rose are all examples of this.  John Boyega was the most exciting casting in the entire early excitement of Star Wars for me because of his performance in Attack the Block.  His range and acting abilities are the best of the Rey trilogy and what was he reduced to?  Jokes and yelling, "Rey!" 

Disney went into this saying, "Let's have a female lead and a young black actor," without care or consideration for making either of those characters worth a damn.  There is nothing good nor creative nor memorable about either of them.  Boyega's talents were COMPLETELY wasted in him being a token black sidekick.  His role was more insulting as it turned out than not having a single black character in the trilogy.  He was basically Rey's ***** through the entire saga and had no agency whatsoever outside of Rey. 

And don't even get me started on Rey.  She was the biggest and worst example of a Mary Sue that cinematic history has ever seen.  EVER. 

THAT is what's wrong with making something female-centric.

Focus on t he story, THEN focus on the cast. 

1. Write a compelling story. 
2. Tweak that story to give races, sexual orientation, genders their spot. 

Be inclusive and diverse, but don't START there if that makes sense.  It is tantamount to wiping your butt before you poop otherwise.

Take the original trilogy.  Do you think it started as a completed concept one day all at once?  Because as a hobbyist writer, I can tell you that's not how storytelling works.  It probably started with son is introduced to world of Jedi, his father was once a great Jedi who turned evil.  Then there was probably a What If at some point that became What If Luke had a twin?  What if that twin was his sister?  And that created the most beloved female character of perhaps all-time. 

Point number two:

Inclusion and diversity at conception leads naturally to exclusivity. 

When you go into something with the sole purpose of it being female-centric, that suffocates the development of other characters. 

Again, take the original trilogy.  It wasn't conceived as male-centric.  It was a story with, essentially, two male leads and a female lead.  It allowed all three (Han, Luke, Leia) to breathe and to thrive.  Luke may have been the protagonist, but each character was allowed to develop on their own time.  Leia was headstrong and determined to defeat the Empire.  Han was determined to get what he could.  Luke was determined to become a Jedi.  All three of those character arcs overlapped and they grew and fed off of each other. 

Take the Clone Wars TV series.  It's nobody-centric.  It's episodic and it's had episodes centered around the best female Star Wars characters outside of Leia, and they're all diverse.  That one green Jedi lady is calm and composed and by the books.  Then Asokha or however you spell her name is impulsive and a good-hearted female version of Anakin who leans closer to the light than the dark.  At the same time, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Mace Windu and others all have their time to shine as well as female villains.  There is no center.  It's story-centric. 

Disney needs to stop with the inclusion and diversity first angle and start with the story angle.  It is absolutely one hundred percent restrictive.  By definition.  Female-centric, male-centric... It restricts you in storytelling by its very definition and the best possible thing for Disney to do is stop how they're doing this and then let the characters fit the story.

Imagine the Rey trilogy as follows:

A force-sensitive character with mysterious background meets up with a Storm Trooper deserter and they run into a Tom Cruise in Maverick type rebellion fighter pilot.  The villain is secretly Han and Leia's child.  At the end of the trilogy we realize that Palpatine was behind the creation of the Force Sensitive character. 

Now imagine if they assigned roles after the story conception.  Would a female Poe Dameron not have been fun?  What if John Boyega had been the force sensitive character?  What if Kylo was a female? 

Bottom line: Don't restrict yourself as a writer, don't restrict the characters.  You're going to end up with boring characters and a restricted story. 

Like... Imagine The Mandalorian.  I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard he rarely if ever takes off his helmet.  Now imagine if they filmed all that and had him never take off his helmet and then they Metroid Primed the **** out of the audience and the Mandalorian removed his helmet and it was a female and the helmet made her voice sound like a male. 

I really need to buddy up with Steven Spielberg's niece or something because I could do so much better than Disney. 

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Nothing is wrong with a female lead.  What's wrong is female-centric from the outset. 

What would happen if you had a male-centric film?  I'm not asking that in a butthurt outcry "that's not fair!" type way, I'm asking it in what would happen to that character if you went into a series with the sole purpose of it being male-centric?

What would happen is you would get an amalgamation of Predator characters.  Testosterone, tough, tobacco chewing and ticked off grunts.

Are you attacking the cinematic masterpiece that is Predator?

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Inclusion and diversity for the sake of inclusion and diversity is tokenism.  Prove me wrong. 

Fo sho.  The second and third ones I think were the real culprits for that.  The first one was less problematic because it wasn't so shoehorned in.

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Rey, Finn, Rose are all examples of this.  John Boyega was the most exciting casting in the entire early excitement of Star Wars for me because of his performance in Attack the Block.  His range and acting abilities are the best of the Rey trilogy and what was he reduced to?  Jokes and yelling, "Rey!" 

My dude.  Can we talk about this?  Boyega was one of the best parts of Force Awakens, and he played very well off of Poe and Rey.  So of course, in the second movie, they separate him from both of them, and send him on a random sidequest that has no effect on the overall plot if you completely remove it, keeping him with the other diversity casting, Asian Female!

The the third one, yes, his entire role was yelling "Rey!" and doing nothing else.  They didn't even resolve his plot thread!  He says at the beginning that he has to tell her something, and that is NEVER resolved.  Unless the thing he needed to tell her was his name.

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

And don't even get me started on Rey.  She was the biggest and worst example of a Mary Sue that cinematic history has ever seen.  EVER. 

Yeah.  When you have both tokenism and a Mary-Sue-stron-female-protagonist, you're just ticking boxes and playing to YA novel crowds.  Which is arguably just as bad as not even including diversity characters.

[MacReady]

@Daniel, Predator is one of 5 movies I have ever seen that has never left my top 10 list.  I would never attack that masterpiece.  

[Deadpulse]

I understand not restricting your storytelling, but most people go into writing after having most plot details and characters mapped out. If the outline has a mostly female character list, I dont see the problem with that. Im also not sure gender is all that restricting to storytelling, but thats not a discussion we need to have here as it won't go anywhere great. 

As for your complaints about Rey and Finn, I think both had great roles in FA. The issue wasn't pushing their character's because they wanted diversity, I believe it's more so the folly that they didnt plan out the trilogy at all and let each chapter's director/writer run with whatever they wanted to do until RoS where they realized how badly they F'd up by not planning ahead. 

[Calvert28]

2 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

What is wrong with that? Russian Dolls was a great show and she worked on one of the most under-rated TV properties of all time in Terriers. 

Female-Centric? We just got that with the last 3 movies.

Nothing wrong with a female lead. But they have to "shove" that in there that it's female centric?

[Calvert28]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

I understand not restricting your storytelling, but most people go into writing after having most plot details and characters mapped out. If the outline has a mostly female character list, I dont see the problem with that. Im also not sure gender is all that restricting to storytelling, but thats not a discussion we need to have here as it won't go anywhere great. 

As for your complaints about Rey and Finn, I think both had great roles in FA. The issue wasn't pushing their character's because they wanted diversity, I believe it's more so the folly that they didnt plan out the trilogy at all and let each chapter's director/writer run with whatever they wanted to do until RoS where they realized how badly they F'd up by not planning ahead. 

Not really. Even John Boyega is throwing more and more shade at Disney apparently because of the way they handled his character.

[Deadpulse]

3 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Not really. Even John Boyega is throwing more and more shade at Disney apparently because of the way they handled his character.

Again, didn't disagree. They fumbled the whole thing by clearly not having a plan from the get. Hard to have clear character arcs when each director/writer takes them in different directions and then cobbles a BS ending together that proves beyond a doubt there was no plan for the whole series. 

 

7 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Female-Centric? We just got that with the last 3 movies.

Nothing wrong with a female lead. But they have to "shove" that in there that it's female centric?

Most of the main characters are male, not sure how that's female centric. Its female lead, definitely. Also, we know almost nothing about this series. We could be over blowing this and reading into hyperbole. I mean, we literally know nothing lol

[Calvert28]

1 minute ago, Deadpulse said:

Again, didn't disagree. They fumbled the whole thing by clearly not having a plan from the get. Hard to have clear character arcs when each director/writer takes them in different directions and then cobbles a BS ending together that proves beyond a doubt there was no plan for the whole series. 

 

Most of the main characters are male, not sure how that's female centric. Its female lead, definitely. Also, we know almost nothing about this series. We could be over blowing this and reading into hyperbole. I mean, we literally know nothing lol

If past star wars projects under Kathleen Kennedy are any idicator's then yea...... cmon Deadpulse be real here. You're telling me that you would have approved of RoS coming out?

[Deadpulse]

52 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

You're telling me that you would have approved of RoS coming out?

I dont understand the question