New Derek Carr thread

[BayRaider]

19 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

The same thing we been doing the last 6 years obviously. If you made it through the russell era and Pryor era. No way you dissapear now. Do yall remember the forum in 2016. All  he has to do is play well and win. The rumors and "haters" go away. It's that simple.

Been on this forum since 2006. Made an account to vent my frustrations how bad that offense was, especially Andrew Walter. Russell and all others put Walter to shame. Believe it or not, there were people defending Walter, making excuses, OL worst of all time, etc. While true to an extent, he was by far the worst QB I have seen in my lifetime. The excuses for QBs seems to be a Raider past time on FootballsFuture. The excuses were sky high for JaMarcus as well. 
 

Not that I am comparing Carr to either of those guys, but you get the point. 

[jimkelly02]

2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

1) Find the specific of his contracts and whether there is a trade kicker. Until we find that out, then we can see who is right

 

2) Overblown stat? You didn't even read it right.  Only two types of teams have won Super Bowls. HOF (Hall of fame QBs) or teams built around a rookie salary QB

It is a trend that has produced the last super bowl champs Since 2003. Just because it doesn't fit your narrative, you just can't cast it aside. It has happened repeatedly every season for more than a decade and a half. Super Bowl Champs

In sports, there are trends that point to the eventual champions. In the NBA, it is point differential. 

 

3) Not one time I said we have to pay his salary. I said most teams would require us to send some compensation along with Carr if we were getting a 2nd in return. Sometimes it is a contract of another player, other times it is a mid-round pick. 

1) omg why are you fighting me in this!?! It’s soooo simple: the original tweeter didn’t do his research... he looked at Carr’s cap hit and didn’t factor in a team trading for him doesn’t have to pay his signing bonus.  All this type of info is available on OTC and Spotrac!  As far as I know there are no trade kickers in the nfl, only true nba.  Im not saying that park to be a fact, but i’m very knowledgeable about the cap for many years and have never seen one.

its wayyyy more likely the “reporter” who tweeted that was lazy and not knowledgeable about contracts or even just made a simple mistake by rushing then Carr has the only trade kicker in his contract for all NFL players...ever.  
where talking about 2.5m difference in cap for the team who trades for him vs our cap.

 

2) I didn’t misread the stat, I understand it quite well.  I did rush to write my last post so maybe I didn’t articulate myself very well.

yes, since 2003 only elite/hof QBs or qb’s on rookie contracts have won the SB.  
I just personally feel this fact is omitting some information.

If you look at QB’s who made it to the Super Bowl the stats flip.

by point is outside of Brady/Peyton Manning/Brees/Rodgers/Roethlisberger there have been good but not HoF QBs who get to that game: Russel Wilson(not HoF Yet but elite... maybe he’s included in HOF and I’m not going to argue against that) Jimmy G, Jared Goff, Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, McNabb, Brad Johnson, Kerry Collins, Rich Gannon...who all did it not on rookie deals.

also, I think any such stat shouldn’t go past around 2005,,, that’s when Aaron Rodgers was drafted and off the top of my head that’s signaled the end of the era when teams could afford to draft a qb and not play him right away.

it might actually be better to use 2009 as the last year because i believe after Jamarcus Russell being drafted and that huge contract the new CBA set the cap for rookies. This is when the real advantage of rookie contract qb’s kicked in.

to sum it up,,, I’m not disagreeing with the stat it’s absolutely accurate and true....

what im saying asking the question of how many good QBs on extension contracts got to The divisional round, The championship game, and to the super bowl.  Yes, what you said is true but if you look outside the small spectrum of that stat you’ll see the majority to teams who go deep into the playoffs have veteran QBs on non rookie deals

also, when looking at your stat every time a qb on a rookie deal won SB or even just got to the SB they were on the last year of their contract besides Mahones this year and Brady in 02.

So even by your stat there’s only a 1 year window to win a championship on a rookie deal.  
clearly there is a huge advantage to paying a QB like Goff 10.7m vs the going rate of 25m (back in ‘19)

and with Winston/Bridgewater/etc about to get 28-33m per year Carr’s 19m cap hit for a team who acquired him via trade is roughly 2/3 the same advantage.  That’s why trading for Carr on his deal would be advantageous for some teams and why he’s worth a 2nd, most likely.

but moreover, if you look at that time frame from your stat you’ll see examples of SB teams who got to the game with cheaper QBs Ala Jimmy G, Matt Hasselbeck.  Sure it’s not a long list but it happens 1/2 as often as a QB on a rookie deal getting there.

[roi34]

I'm officially retired from the Carr thread. It goes no where. Haters won't budge or see any other side and defenders admit some short comings but still would move forward with him. 

 

Later

[BayRaider]

17 minutes ago, roi34 said:

I'm officially retired from the Carr thread. It goes no where. Haters won't budge or see any other side and defenders admit some short comings but still would move forward with him. 

 

Later

I think it’s rather the opposite. The thread is rather split but the ones for Carr are highly dismissive and never really type up an in depth argument. It’ll just be a quick hot take, for the past three years, saying he doesn’t have a great supporting cast which is completely bogus and debunked. Sure he could use one more solid WR, but that’s really reaching as a a basis for an argument. 
 

The other half against Carr have built really detailed arguments and the ones for Carr have quickly dismissed it and cried “Hater”. It’s literally ridiculous. The only who has even tried to build a big argument for Carr is OGX, and his argument is highly flawed and ended with Carr is better than Mahomes. Where as, BP, Dante, Coughman, Myself, df, have all built strong arguments against Carr. But most won’t post here much cause they get labeled a hater and instantly name calling like “terrorist”. It’s literally ridiculous. I agree calling Carr Supporters a “cult” is too much but if one side is a cult, it’s definitely that side. 

[bucksavage1]

9 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I think it’s rather the opposite. The thread is rather split but the ones for Carr are highly dismissive and never really type up an in depth argument. It’ll just be a quick hot take, for the past three years, saying he doesn’t have a great supporting cast which is completely bogus and debunked. Sure he could use one more solid WR, but that’s really reaching as a a basis for an argument. 
 

The other half against Carr have built really detailed arguments and the ones for Carr have quickly dismissed it and cried “Hater”. It’s literally ridiculous. The only who has even tried to build a big argument for Carr is OGX, and his argument is highly flawed and ended with Carr is better than Mahomes. Where as, BP, Dante, Coughman, Myself, df, have all built strong arguments against Carr. But most won’t post here much cause they get labeled a hater and instantly name calling like “terrorist”. It’s literally ridiculous. I agree calling Carr Supporters a “cult” is too much but if one side is a cult, it’s definitely that side. 

It is a pointless battle.  I will not understand how people defend a player who has been overall a big loser for us. It doesn't matter, Gruden , Mayock and Mark Davis will find a QB 

[BayRaider]

9 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

It is a pointless battle.  I will not understand how people defend a player who has been overall a big loser for us. It doesn't matter, Gruden , Mayock and Mark Davis will find a QB 

I think they are just in high denial and really attached to Carr for reasons I mentioned like two posts ago. I’m if we get rid of Carr, this forum will be united again and we can forget about all of this. Except Frankie, he needs to follow Carr 100%. 

[OG_C2X]

47 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

It is a pointless battle.  I will not understand how people defend a player who has been overall a big loser for us. It doesn't matter, Gruden , Mayock and Mark Davis will find a QB 

his name is Derek Dallas Carr enjoy the ride!!

[Totty]

19 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

his name is Derek Dallas Carr enjoy the ride!!

😂😂😂

[BayRaider]

One of the most accurate Carr quotes, can’t remember which analyst this was but:

“When he gets hit even once, or one pressure, or an INT, he folds up like a cheap suit, and that’s the end. I don’t get it because that’s not his personality, but that’s the reality”. 
 

100% true. This was a lot of 2017/2018. And for 2019 look at Vikings, Chiefs x2, Jets, and 2nd half of Jaguars. Carr literally just shuts down in these games. Shuts completely down. He looks shaken, confidence gone, will not throw if his WR has a solid step in a tight window, and will dump it off on 3rd down. 

[Gannon12]

13 hours ago, roi34 said:

I'm officially retired from the Carr thread. It goes no where. Haters won't budge or see any other side and defenders admit some short comings but still would move forward with him. 

 

Later

[Frankie2Gunz]

14 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I think they are just in high denial and really attached to Carr for reasons I mentioned like two posts ago. I’m if we get rid of Carr, this forum will be united again and we can forget about all of this. Except Frankie, he needs to follow Carr 100%. 

We will see who is right and wrong this offseason.  If Carr is our starting Qb next season and we didn't spend one of our first 2 picks on a QB you are flat out wrong with your assessment of Carr. 

You claim to post facts about why you think Carr is a terrible QB but you cherry pick stats to fit your narrative.  Here is a fact you can't deny but because it doesn't fit your lazy narrative so you dismiss it with "PFF doesn't know what they're talking about and passer rating is a flawed stat".  Give me a break.

I have posted a fact that 4 QB's in the afc had an above 100 passer rating and there is no denying that Carr accomplished this with the worst overall roster.  That is a fact.

I am a Raider fan first and Carr is without a doubt the best QB we have had since Gannon.  Is he perfect, no but he is a QB who is a leader and has proven he can play at an MVP level even with substandard talent and continuous coaching/personnel changes.  There is no doubting that Carr has had one of the 3 worst overall rosters the last 2 seasons, our WR's are a flat out joke, our running game has zero depth behind Jacobs and our D is one of the worst in the NFL.  Not even you can deny that.  Surround Carr with competent talent, give him a D that is top 15, we start to win games and he will play like he did in 2016, I have no doubt about that.  

I have asked many on here to list building block QB's (obviously QB's like Brady would not be on the list due to age) that are clearly better building block QB's than Carr.  Carr is always top 10ish and you want to move on from a player like that for some trash stopgap like Fitztrash or Ol' Crab legs?  You also want to take a risk on using one of our picks 1st round pick to draft an unproven commodity just to move on from Carr?  I do not think you fully understand the ramifications of making a move like this if that QB doesn't pan out. 

If a scenario like that were to play out and say we trade Carr to the Bears and he takes them deep into the playoffs and the rookie we draft doesn't play well, what would your excuse be?  Furthermore what would Mayocks excuse be and I can assure you fans would be calling for his head.  "How could Mayock not realize that all we needed to do is surround Carr with some talent".  Similar to what Miami fans are now saying about Tannehill.

 Mayock is not a stupid person from what I can tell and he would never take a risk like this, at least not this offseason, no matter what garbage the media is pumping out there.  The only way I could see him making a move from Carr would be if a team offered a boatload of picks for him.  

[agarcia34]

Carr missed the ultimate opportunity to troll hard. Should have went to the fight last night. Gruden and Mark were there and could have went up to them so pictures can be taken. Would have been a genius move. Mack was there so he could have just went with him. 

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

We will see who is right and wrong this offseason.  If Carr is our starting Qb next season and we didn't spend one of our first 2 picks on a QB you are flat out wrong with your assessment of Carr. 

You claim to post facts about why you think Carr is a terrible QB but you cherry pick stats to fit your narrative.  Here is a fact you can't deny but because it doesn't fit your lazy narrative so you dismiss it with "PFF doesn't know what they're talking about and passer rating is a flawed stat".  Give me a break.

I have posted a fact that 4 QB's in the afc had an above 100 passer rating and there is no denying that Carr accomplished this with the worst overall roster.  That is a fact.

I am a Raider fan first and Carr is without a doubt the best QB we have had since Gannon.  Is he perfect, no but he is a QB who is a leader and has proven he can play at an MVP level even with substandard talent and continuous coaching/personnel changes.  There is no doubting that Carr has had one of the 3 worst overall rosters the last 2 seasons, our WR's are a flat out joke, our running game has zero depth behind Jacobs and our D is one of the worst in the NFL.  Not even you can deny that.  Surround Carr with competent talent, give him a D that is top 15, we start to win games and he will play like he did in 2016, I have no doubt about that.  

I have asked many on here to list building block QB's (obviously QB's like Brady would not be on the list due to age) that are clearly better building block QB's than Carr.  Carr is always top 10ish and you want to move on from a player like that for some trash stopgap like Fitztrash or Ol' Crab legs?  You also want to take a risk on using one of our picks 1st round pick to draft an unproven commodity just to move on from Carr?  I do not think you fully understand the ramifications of making a move like this if that QB doesn't pan out. 

If a scenario like that were to play out and say we trade Carr to the Bears and he takes them deep into the playoffs and the rookie we draft doesn't play well, what would your excuse be?  Furthermore what would Mayocks excuse be and I can assure you fans would be calling for his head.  "How could Mayock not realize that all we needed to do is surround Carr with some talent".  Similar to what Miami fans are now saying about Tannehill.

 Mayock is not a stupid person from what I can tell and he would never take a risk like this, at least not this offseason, no matter what garbage the media is pumping out there.  The only way I could see him making a move from Carr would be if a team offered a boatload of picks for him.  

Why don't you compare the type of throws those QB's make compared to dump off king. It's like comparing a guy who makes lay ups and a guy who makes 3's both shooting 50% but calling them both great shooters.

[BayRaider]

@Frankie2Gunz QB Rating is highly resulted by COMP % and Low INTs. Both of those from Carr are directly due to being obsessively conservative. Go debunk anything I said on Page 27. It’s all the truth. Stop box score scouting and debate me Carrs Pros and Cons as a Football player, and you see why he’s in that 19-22 range for starting QBs. 
 

 

[BayRaider]

Carrs last four pictures on instagram have been Patriots, Chargers, Bears, and Colts, with David being the first comment on all of them with stuff like “!!!!”.

You wanted more sensitive and passive aggressive examples? There you go. Dude a passive aggressive beast. Literally every week Carr cries about something. 
 

As someone else said, if this was a WR, he’d be all over the news.