2020 Tight End Titillating Talk

[AlexGreen#20]

4 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

Think people are selling Jace a little short.  That man is a very high end natural receiver, he has no issue turning back for the ball, catching it off stride, low, high, whatever.  Always fluid at the catch point and transitions immediately to a runner.  Also is very willing as a blocker, just doesn't have the size or body for it yet.  I'm not at all guaranteeing he's going to be a good pro or anything, but there's plenty of talent there and in a weak TE class he goes round 1-2.  I'll shoot my shot here and say I do expect him to make some noise receiving this year.

This is the kind of Sternberger take I'm all in on

[Mr Bad Example]

8 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Fast forward a bunch of years and Chris Collinsworth is sitting there trying to come up with a name for what Aaron Hernandez is doing as he lines up at the Fullback (and the Wingback) spot and catching balls, running for touchdowns, and lead blocking. So he bounces back to his youth and labels him the H-Back. H-Back ironically just being short for Halfback, which is already on the field. 

 

H-back was a position Joe Gibbs created when he was OC for the Chargers so Kellen Winslow could get a running start and not get jammed up at the line. It isn't short for halfback.

[skibrett15]

8 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

H back is a term that goes way back into history. If you think of today's I formation, and start at the line of scrimmage and move backwards it goes in order:

1. Quarter Back = 1/4 = Quarter of the way back.

2. Full Back = 1/1 = Fully Back

3. Half Back = 1/2 = Halfway Back

That makes no sense. It should go:

1. Quarterback

2. Halfback

3. Fullback

so it's in order. And back in the day that's how it was. If you ever see that Jim Taylor won an MVP for the Packers at Fullback, know that he was actually playing the Halfback position you think of today. 

The Fullback was more the straight ahead runner and the Halfback was more the faster guy used for all sorts of different assignments from blocking, to running the ball, to running routes

Well then The Veer offense happened. Some people call it the T formation. At that point, both backs were lined up at the same depth, but because teams adopted it with current players, their position labels stuck.

This next part is going to be grossly simplified, but, the beer was more about speed than power, so the bigger back took on more blocking duties. At that point it kinda became ingrained in people's minds that blocking back equals fullback and running back equals Halfback. When singleback formations became dominant, those names stuck, and the designations became counter to their origin. 

Fast forward a bunch of years and Chris Collinsworth is sitting there trying to come up with a name for what Aaron Hernandez is doing as he lines up at the Fullback (and the Wingback) spot and catching balls, running for touchdowns, and lead blocking. So he bounces back to his youth and labels him the H-Back. H-Back ironically just being short for Halfback, which is already on the field. 

Now take a step back and realize most teams aren't running the ball with their H Back. It's just a name for a TE that lead blocks. 

As far as their sizes, it's all about the flavor you're looking for. If you're looking for a receiver that can lead block, you're probably looking at 235ish. Have you seen the size of Linebackers these days?

If you're looking for a guy who can block the edge, don't come out with anything lighter than 250.

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/05a18fd9-9f80-49bb-9f20-724b51ad2f11

Thanks for teaching me the veer @AlexGreen#20

[skibrett15]

8 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Fast forward a bunch of years and Chris Collinsworth is sitting there trying to come up with a name for what Aaron Hernandez is doing as he lines up at the Fullback (and the Wingback) spot and catching balls, running for touchdowns, and lead blocking. So he bounces back to his youth and labels him the H-Back. H-Back ironically just being short for Halfback, which is already on the field.

I don't think this part is true.  Not at least the part about it having anything to do with Aaron Hernandez.  I can recall this being a thing well before his time.  Certainly Hernandez was used in a much more diverse wing T ballcarrier role than below, but this is the digging I found:

 

Apparently the term H-Back comes from Joe Gibbs and the fact that John Riggins, the primary ball carrier for Washington, was actually a Fullback.  So when Gibbs moved to 12 from 21 personnel, when diagramming the 2nd TE position, he kept the "halfback" and diagramed it as H.  But it was actually a 2 TE set so the H back is the off the line TE.

Basically, if Riggins had been listed a RB for most of his career, we would have the F-back rather than the H back.

[skibrett15]

4 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

Think people are selling Jace a little short.  That man is a very high end natural receiver, he has no issue turning back for the ball, catching it off stride, low, high, whatever.  Always fluid at the catch point and transitions immediately to a runner.  Also is very willing as a blocker, just doesn't have the size or body for it yet.  I'm not at all guaranteeing he's going to be a good pro or anything, but there's plenty of talent there and in a weak TE class he goes round 1-2.  I'll shoot my shot here and say I do expect him to make some noise receiving this year.

I think they are especially selling him short athletically!

This guy is a smooth athlete!  I'm thinking poor man's dallas clark, Alge Crumpler, Chris Cooley type guy.  Much more of an athlete than what we had in Jimmy Graham who was effectively a totem pole out there.

 

he is absolutely no blocker, but the only role left for him last season was this blocking type role since he's a better blocker than Jimmy Graham just by default.  So he's willing to block, but he's no mauler.

 

I don't get the John Kuhn comp whatsoever.  This guy is a receiver 1st and 2nd, and a blocker in a pinch.  I'd rather have him catch the screen pass than be blocking for the screen pass.

[Packer_ESP]

5 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

More people need to like that damn post. That **** was interesting.

I had skimmed last few pages and had missed it. Went back and read it because of this comment, and it was indeed damn interesting, thank you.

[squire12]

7 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

16 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Fast forward a bunch of years and Chris Collinsworth is sitting there trying to come up with a name for what Aaron Hernandez is doing as he lines up at the Fullback (and the Wingback) spot and catching balls, running for touchdowns, and lead blocking. So he bounces back to his youth and labels him the H-Back. H-Back ironically just being short for Halfback, which is already on the field. 

 

H-back was a position Joe Gibbs created when he was OC for the Chargers so Kellen Winslow could get a running start and not get jammed up at the line. It isn't short for halfback.

 

7 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

I don't think this part is true.  Not at least the part about it having anything to do with Aaron Hernandez.  I can recall this being a thing well before his time.  Certainly Hernandez was used in a much more diverse wing T ballcarrier role than below, but this is the digging I found:

 

Apparently the term H-Back comes from Joe Gibbs and the fact that John Riggins, the primary ball carrier for Washington, was actually a Fullback.  So when Gibbs moved to 12 from 21 personnel, when diagramming the 2nd TE position, he kept the "halfback" and diagramed it as H.  But it was actually a 2 TE set so the H back is the off the line TE.

Basically, if Riggins had been listed a RB for most of his career, we would have the F-back rather than the H back.

Yeah, giving Collinsworth any credit for coining the term H-back is faulty.   That is a Joe Gibbs staple.  

Quote

Ah, the H-back spot. In today's college football world the position has made somewhat of a resurgence. Made popular by Joe Gibbs during his Redskins days, under the current climate the H-back has taken on a whole new meaning as teams get better athletes and find ways to use them all over the field.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1596720-breaking-down-what-the-h-back-position-is-all-about

 

[AlexGreen#20]

18 minutes ago, squire12 said:

 

Yeah, giving Collinsworth any credit for coining the term H-back is faulty.   That is a Joe Gibbs staple.  

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1596720-breaking-down-what-the-h-back-position-is-all-about

 

Collinsworth didn't coin ****. Collinsworth is responsible for anyone in 2015 knowing the damn term. It was dead and in the ground before Belichick dusted it off.

Gibbs role is covered under the part about the singleback formations. That was predominantly his offensive revolution.

Gibbs didn't create the H back. Jim Taylor was a ******* H Back for Lombardi

Edited March 27, 2020 by AlexGreen#20

[AlexGreen#20]

8 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

I don't think this part is true.  Not at least the part about it having anything to do with Aaron Hernandez.  I can recall this being a thing well before his time.  Certainly Hernandez was used in a much more diverse wing T ballcarrier role than below, but this is the digging I found:

 

Apparently the term H-Back comes from Joe Gibbs and the fact that John Riggins, the primary ball carrier for Washington, was actually a Fullback.  So when Gibbs moved to 12 from 21 personnel, when diagramming the 2nd TE position, he kept the "halfback" and diagramed it as H.  But it was actually a 2 TE set so the H back is the off the line TE.

Basically, if Riggins had been listed a RB for most of his career, we would have the F-back rather than the H back.

Collinsworth, really Belichick, is the reason the term got revived. He obviously didn't create it. 

[AlexGreen#20]

8 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

H-back was a position Joe Gibbs created when he was OC for the Chargers so Kellen Winslow could get a running start and not get jammed up at the line. It isn't short for halfback.

H-Back existed long before Gibbs. 

[squire12]

8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Collinsworth didn't coin ****. Collinsworth is responsible for anyone in 2015 knowing the damn term. It was dead and in the ground before Belichick dusted it off.

Gibbs role is covered under the part about the singleback formations. That was predominantly his offensive revolution.

Gibbs didn't create the H back. Jim Taylor was a ******* H Back for Lombardi

Just because most that don't have a history of watching some 1980's football would not know who Clint Didier was.  Giving Collinsworth credit for anything meaningful is problematic.  

[coachbuns]

8 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

This is the kind of Sternberger take I'm all in on

Agree.  Missing time last year with I think was a concussion really set him back.  Very good take on him and hoping he turns it on this year!

[coachbuns]

8 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

I think they are especially selling him short athletically!

This guy is a smooth athlete!  I'm thinking poor man's dallas clark, Alge Crumpler, Chris Cooley type guy.  Much more of an athlete than what we had in Jimmy Graham who was effectively a totem pole out there.

 

he is absolutely no blocker, but the only role left for him last season was this blocking type role since he's a better blocker than Jimmy Graham just by default.  So he's willing to block, but he's no mauler.

 

I don't get the John Kuhn comp whatsoever.  This guy is a receiver 1st and 2nd, and a blocker in a pinch.  I'd rather have him catch the screen pass than be blocking for the screen pass.

I'd rather have him do both and think he will as the  Packers realize and put his attributes into their game plan.  That being said, Packers could certainly use his pass catching route running abilities to shine!  

[Norm]

10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

More people need to like that damn post. That **** was interesting.

Hate to tell you but nobody cares about **** like that. Now someone okay Boomer me, but it's true. 

[wgbeethree]

2 hours ago, Norm said:

Hate to tell you but nobody cares about **** like that. Now someone okay Boomer me, but it's true.